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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 5th November 2008 , 04:02 PM
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Well done Khazul. Very nice write up.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 5th November 2008 , 04:08 PM
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another top review there Khazul, would love for you to elaborate on the transient part not quite understanding that
Thanks

On your CDJs, if you use tempo lock to hold the pitch while you change the playback speed, then with certain punchy sounds, particularly alot of punchy kicks, the pitch shifter can sometimes make the initial transient sound doubled - it sound like you have two kicks that arnt exactly in sync - which for DJing is a little anonoying

The DJM-800 I guess uses the same pitch shift algorythm, and has the same artifact. I dont notice it on everything, just certain tracks with rather punchy kicks and after certain pitch shifts. It more noticeable in good cans than via a PA (due to room ambience etc masking it).

The end result is I do still use tempo lock sometimes and I do use the pitch shifter on the DJM, but in both cases I'll use them pre-emptively so I never have to leave a track running with them on because of the impact on kicks sometimes.

Try the tempo lock mode on your CDJs and fiddle with the pitch on various tracks and you will come across the odd track where it stick out like a sore thumb in your cans
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Old 5th November 2008 , 04:11 PM
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my slider is pretty much always on +/-6 with MT on, never noticed it but then i hardly have to go over 2-3 bpm either way
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 5th November 2008 , 04:21 PM
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I wondered if it was overly clipped sounds that were causing it (on digital sources like CDs, mp3s etc), but Ive heard mixing off the turntables as well. Was just looking foor some tracks you might have to illustrate and noticed some snares do it as well.
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Old 5th November 2008 , 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khazul View Post
I wondered if it was overly clipped sounds that were causing it (on digital sources like CDs, mp3s etc), but Ive heard mixing off the turntables as well. Was just looking foor some tracks you might have to illustrate and noticed some snares do it as well.
yeah get me a track title that its prominent on and il give it a whirl
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Old 1st February 2009 , 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khazul View Post
I wondered if it was overly clipped sounds that were causing it (on digital sources like CDs, mp3s etc), but Ive heard mixing off the turntables as well. Was just looking foor some tracks you might have to illustrate and noticed some snares do it as well.
I can explain a bit more on the transient problems your explaining whilst key-locking.

Unfortunately, it's due to the time constraints that the built in algo's have to run on. There is a practical trade off between the speed of the prcoess and it's accuracy.

In a nutshell, software functions that perform pitch operations are allowed more time (and MUCH more processing power) to carry out their jobs. They implement complex resample routines, that interpolate sample rates and the data in each block.

The older (less accurate, but significantly faster) technique effectively does a 'cut and shut' job on the samples. This introduces a nasty form of amplitude modulation, since the samples are ruthlessly truncated in order to force them to fit. This is especially noticeable on transient points, because they are the part of the signal that tends to catch the listeners attention...and it's obvious because the modulation is effectively caused by data that is lost in the resampling process. The doubling up you hear is caused by the loss of the intended/natural separation between transient points.

For a comparison of the two, take a look at Abletons Beats and Complex mode. Beats is the fast routine, complex is the more intensive one. Warp the same material in both, and you'll hear the difference. it should be pointed out that the beats mode is still better then the Algo run on Pioneer CDJ and MIxers... but again you have to remember it's not trying to run in real-time like the hardware is !
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