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Old 3rd September 2008 , 01:37 PM
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Default Remix advice?

There are a few remix competitions out there and at least two have been mentioned here on the forums - Johnny Cash and Public Enemy spring to mind.

I was wondering if anyone would like to enlighten us on how they approach a remix. I have only ever done one - for the FM Ian Carey competition and it didn't win so I presume it was crap in the eyes of the adjudicators - it wasn't dance music at all!! But I liked it! That's what's important, isn't it?

So what's the best way to approach a remix starting from an acappella audio file?
I know it is all probably very related to the material and the style you are going to remix it in, but are there any techniques that should be included (e.g. sidechaining, etc)?
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Old 3rd September 2008 , 04:25 PM
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basically if your doing a remix there is no fixed formula ..its your version of an original idea so you can do whatever you want theres no correct way or no wrong way just what you feel suits the original sample best..

ive heard remixs which are 10 times better than the original mix..the kelly rowland and beyonce remixs done by the freemasons are completely different and much better than the original songs.

dont worry if you havent won a competetion 99 percent of us wont win but dont think your version was bad just think your version wasnt what the judges were looking for at that time..

music styles change from week too week so what on judge will love one week the same judge wont like the week after..so if your doing a remix the most importatnt thing i have fun with it dont worry if your using the correct eq settings or using the correct synth patches just think well i like the version ive one and hope others will agree or disagree .
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Old 3rd September 2008 , 07:29 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement waxxy.

There probably isn't a hard and fast rule, but is it more usual as the first step to try to get a drum beat going with an acapella and then start thinking or other instrumentation?
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Old 3rd September 2008 , 10:01 PM
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Hi sphelan
I've been remixing tracks for, shall we say, a considerable amount of time. All have been dance oriented, whether considered underground or cross-over and even pop/dance. A few years ago I started doing lectures for colleges and universities where one of my most popular sessions was, 'The Anatomy of a Remix'. During these sessions I would start with a blank Logic arrange page, and take the students (over a two hour period) through the significant stages of a remix (usually of a recognisable track so they really could feel/see/hear the difference). So this is my personal approach to doing a remix.. it may/will differ to others.

1> A Basic Drum pattern - Most of my stuff is basically 'dance' music, 4 to the floor, 'house' or electronic/funky rhythms (programmed not 'real' so to speak) - and is produced first for a dancefloor, secondly for radio, and thirdly, and hopefully, TV. The track I get to remix usually has a vocal, wether it's a hook line, basic lead and bv's or full on layers of harmonies etc. There may also be available, the original song's instrumental parts (it may for example have a killer synth riff which most listeners would associate as 'the catchy bit' ). The aforementioned vocal may need to be timestretched from a faster tempo to a lower one, or of course the reverse - it depends on what 'style/flavour' I wish to give the remix.

Usually a record company will employ your remix services because they like stuff you've done before and would like that vibe/quality/style injecting to the track, or you may just be a reliable remixer who can fulfill the A&R guys request of how he'd like the remix to sound (there's a load of scenarios here..). Considering this, the pre-determined vision of what the track will be style, sound and vibe -wise will already be in place.

So.. Having time-stretched the vocal to the required tempo (say: 127bpm), I'll keep that file to one side, create a 4 or 8 bar cycle area, and start to work on a basic groove. I'd start with a kick drum I like which has the flavour, intensity, and clarity I want and lay down a basic 4/4 rhythm. Then I'd add some simple eighths hi-hats just to get a bit more movement. Then some sort of snare or clap to emphasise the 2 and the 4 or just pick up the groove.. At this point, I'd add maybe a snatch of the lead vocal, either verse or chorus hook which will provide more of a foundation to start, metaphorically speaking, hanging the branches on ().

2> The Killer bassline and additional percussion.
The remix may be based on a simple vocal hook, OR, a complex vocal and musical work with chord and bassline changes necessary. I'd start by bedding underneath the elements already created, a bass preset that has the right sound, ADSR content, dynamic feel, power and presence. This, in priorities, needs to be 'felt and heard' in a club, and 'heard and felt' on the radio, if you get my drift. With the vocal running and the basic groove, you'll get a clearer initial indication of how busy, or not, your bassline should be, and whether you want it to be of a 'normal' representation or utilise some sort of side-chaining effect (and please remember that side-chaining is a currently in vogue effect for bass, it hasn't always been employed, so use it where you feel is right or don't use it at all!). I'd call this basic simple bassline, a 'carrier' line which will be the one that the track 'returns' to after the more musical content has passed (of course, 1, 2 or maybe 3 other bass parts may be written later on if the track musically demands it).

As the track will have an arrangement content where parts (wether musical or percussive) will develop and increase or decrease in intensity over the timeline, this is where the programming of additional rhythm parts will come in. At this point I'd copy the entire midi and/or audio parts to another 4/8 bar cycle area where I would inject other 'groove' elements, loops or flavours to be used as enhancement to either the general rhythm track or as 'lifts' or sectional dividers whilst the remix moves through the timeline. Also, thereafter, I'd write the bass parts for say a chorus or middle 8 here, maybe copying the 4/8 bar sections so I'd see maybe three or four 'chunks' of parts which I can see (or label) as eg: groove 1, groove 2, verse, chorus, break etc - this way you start to get a visual as well as audio indication of a developing structure (albeit not 'glued together' yet).

3> Musical part and full vocal placement
If as mentioned earlier, I have a musical hook/performance on which to hang this whole remix, then that's a great help.. If, however, I had a song that in its original version, is good but has nothing that could be called a killer riff, then perhaps this is where I'd look to create one, alongside other supporting parts, which will 'bed' underneath or suggest sections of a 'departure' flavour. These new parts could be for example, stacatto chords, dreamy pads, gated synth beds, percussive piano stabs, filtered sweeps, anything that I feel will be beneficial to the track. Great care must be take though to try and learn to KNOW WHEN TO STOP - that is, not to layer line after line, riff after riff, layer after layer.. usually, less is indeed more - the simple general rule of thumb has already been mentioned on this forum, "..when it sounds right, it IS right!"

So, to recap, at this stage I will have worked out all percussion parts that develop in the time-line, likewise, after arranging the vocals (including BV's and harmonies) over their respective sections, played/programmed all musical parts necessary. I maybe also would have worked out the content (being an a-typical dance/club track) of a 'breakdown' section, which could even contain a different breakbeat groove perhaps, and other off the wall or contrasting content - which incidentally, isn't confined to club tracks: check the radio mix of Madonna's "Give It To Me' as an example of a 'departure' section).

4> The Arrangement
With an armory of 'what does what'.. I would then look at 'what goes where'. You could have some great parts programmed, which, when looped/cycled are sounding great, but most of this effort could be in vain if the arrangement within, and here's that word again, the timeline, isn't doin' it! Although most dance tracks would kick off with some sort of gradually intensifying percussion/rhythm vibe, let's put that to one side and look at 'the meat' of the track. Here's a standard example (and not definitive nor 'the rule' by any means) of sections within a contemporary dance/pop track (and this I reckon could apply to R&B too..).

INSTRUMENTAL (chorus flavoured) INTRO
VERSE 1
CHORUS 1
BREAK
(for a few bars perhaps)
VERSE 2
CHORUS 2
REFRAIN or DEPARTURE BREAK
MIDDLE 8/INST.BREAKDOWN

..then
CHORUS REPEAT X 2/3 to DEAD STOP OR FADE
..or
VERSE 2 Repeat (or VESRE 3)
CHORUS REPEATS TO DEAD STOP OR FADE


5> FX, Hits, Bleeps 'n Sweeps
Now I'd have the full arrangement on the DAW's arrange page, here I would look at the 'fairy dusting' which could be such things as crash cymbals or FX to 'punch-in' new sections or indicate the end of a previous one, flitered effects sweeps or periodic percussive elements such as 'fill's or 'hits' - I'm sure you follow my drift here - this sort of stuff just adds subliminal content sprinkled into the piece...

6> The Mix!
With all of the above accomplished, the penultimate step is to mix the track to sound dynamically as good as possible. I will tell you that I'm an advocate of pretty much getting the balance right from 'the off'. I will take the time to effect, process and manipulate every element to 'work' within the overall balance of the mix as it progresses and grows, so, I have the dynamics of everything more or less right at the end of the session. This philosophy developed the more I got used to mixing 'in the box', and moving away from 'flattening' the faders of a physical mixing desk after days of programming to then put my 'mixing' head on. At this point, I will engage Logic's powerful automation functionality to add any additional delay, reverb, and other effects hits where necessary, and also to do any form of volume ride or filter manipulation perhaps.

7> Mastering
Simple, if the track is going to be commercially available, it will go to a professional mastering engineer so I would just delicately EQ the two track output, dialing in some gentle compression, and that would be it. If it's destined for performance on radio, in clubs or on peoples CD players and is not going to get a commercial release, I will most likely use the mastering plug-ins I have available to do the best job that my ears can be satisfied with (I try and take a compromise of maintaining dynamic range, allowing the track to 'breathe' properly, but also recognising the need for it to stand proud next to all the 'overly squashed, loudness war' victims out there...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The above just represents the basic and major steps of how I approach a remix - the intricacies of detailed programming, sound design, automation, mixing and creative expression are all individual topics in themselves, but that's my domain just as much as how you express/perform them, will be uniquely yours!

Best of luck!
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Old 3rd September 2008 , 10:58 PM
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wow modz1 your post is awesome, very beneficial! oddly enough i just attempted a remix and just wish i had seen this post before i had started
oh well at least i know now, may even do the same remix again with your advice
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Old 4th September 2008 , 04:44 AM
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Default Re: How to go about remixes

The other thing I know a lot of remixers do, is they will take the original vocal and then use it as an acapella over other tracks. When they find something that works, they then go about doing something similar..

Good post there Modz. I do however, have a different way of going about things (doesn't everyone).

1) I will timestretch the vocal from it's original bpm to something more usable. Normally that's between 126-128 for me.

2) I will drag out a basic Ultrabeat, and let it play constantly over the duration of the vocal.

3) I will then arrange the vocal first, before I even think of start playing with any instruments. I do this, because I tend to find it easier to write a track that's in the order/structure I like. Rather then start writing, and then have to edit later. Also I've found, a lot of vocal takes are just dumped from the original recording, not the produced version.. When I did the Peyton remix, it was quite frankly a mess. I had to start from scratch. The only blessing was that it was a good quality,clean and dry vocal. I therefore, could do just about any amount of processing I wanted to it.

4) I'l then start pulling up bass sounds. Once I've got a rough 8 bar loop going. I'll move onto the chords.

5) I then start looking at things for chords. I use different things. Sometimes its a rhodes,guitar, piano etc. All depends on the style. A lot of this comes down to processing though. Ie you can completely change the sound of an instrument with effects. I spend quite a bit of time here fiddling to get sounds that I like.

6) I'll write some drum loops in the arrange page. Ultrabeat is handy in this repsect, in that it allows you lay out a foundation loop in a matter of seconds. You can then drag that loop onto the track, and begin writing the other parts. I do the drums now rather then before. I'll also start processing the drums here, because they now start forming the heart of the track. I'll start setting up things like sidechains, delays on hats etc, reverse claps etc..

7) I go back to the chords and bass, and write another 8 bars to compliment the first ones. They are normally very similar. Tends to be subtle shifts. In some cases. I'll then copy both, and vary them again to get a 32 bar loop.

8) I'll look at writing the top line, now that everything else is in place.

10) Once all the main parts are there, I'll add things like noise,string pads, copies of other parts being accented on another instrument. I don't always leave them in though. Sometimes less is more effective.

11) I leave it for 30 minutes, go downstairs or outside for a vreak. Come back and then start mixing things properly. I tend to go for drums,bass, vocal, topline and then effects. Its not the order I wrote the mix in, but I think it's the oder that is most important to balance when mixing down. The drums and bass drive the track, the vocal is the most important element, and everything else neds to sit in between afterwards and work with them. It's not always like that, I'm sure I will eventually get tracks that I will sack the vocals off on Infact

I'd like to hear Paul's take on the Ian Carey track. I got all excited when his office manager (an old friend of mine, Brad) told me that they were re-releasing it and putting the parts up. When I heard the parts though, I cursed. It wasn't the original vocal. Instead they had done a replay, and it came with a lot of blatent and awfully overdone auto-tune on it. I had a go but it was so bad in my books that I deleted it, and moved on..

I'm gonna go find some of the old writeups I did about my last couple of remixes..
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Old 4th September 2008 , 05:02 AM
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ok. Here go's ! Incidentally both of these were dropped or stopped by the labels. The Peyton one didn't make the cut, and the Deepswing one got the chop because Erik didn't like the alterations I made by bringing the chorus slightly forward.

Deepswing - written befre I'd finished it.

I picked 'Take Me To The Disco', because I'm a huge fan of the Hardsoul Mix in particular. It's not finished, but I've put a clip of it so far up on MySpace.com - Sunshine State - Birmingham, UK - Club / House / Soul - www.myspace.com/stateofsunshine

1) First off, time compression on the vocals. Erik is cool enough to label the files with the bpm, so I knew that they were 123. I upped the tempo to 128.

2) The files are also labelled with the key of the song, So I set an auto tune to match. Any form of tempo compression/expansion will add artifacts such as pitch deviation (vibrato). It's not a major thing as it wasn't a huge deviation, but I do this out of habit. The bigger the difference, the worst it will sound.

3) Re-arranging the vocals. The original was good, but I like to experiment.

4) Then I started to build the track. I'm not too good at theory or transposing, so I kept it in the original key.

The keys are from EVP88. I've not done anything to these yet.
There's a static organ EVB3, which has an amp sim, FLange, EQ and Compressor. The Comp is side-chained to the kick of one of the ultrabeat kicks.

The organ alternates with an EXS24 loaded with Long Fitth Stack. I've just eq'd the bottom of this at the moment.

The guitar is also another EXS24. This is EQ'd compressed, filtered, Delay & Spacedesigned. The echo effect I programmed myself using the tap function in delay designer..

There's also a Saw legato EXS24, with plays along with the bass at times. This has P-Dist and Mod Delay on it..

The bass is pretty simple. Done on ESM, based on the House Organ. 3 note pattern. Quite an old but classic sound/pattern.

The drums are made up of 4 kits. Techno, Paris, Funk Boogie and Latin. This time I've used M/O versions of ultrabeat and set them all up as auxes. I'm still working on the drums but doing this has given me the control I struggled to find for the Peyton mix...

There's still a LOT I need to do to this, but I've posted up to encourage some other newbies and show that it can be done !


Now for Peyton
1) First step was loading the original track into logic, and using the bpm meter to look at it. It was at 127, which is a good tempo. So I set the project at that rate.

2) Then I loaded the parts in. By parts...well they only gave me a dry, unprocessed and non arranged vocal. So I set about chopping the vocal and creating the structure for the vocal arrangement. It's pretty simple. Intro,Verse,Bridge,Chorus,Verse2,Bridge, Chorus, Bridge, Breakdown, Outro.
The only thing that is really different to the original is that I took part of the vocal and used it as a counterpoint during the chorus. But because it's a secondary point, it had to be blended underneath the main vocal. So I stuck them on a new track, took the fader down and used the filter to blur them. So you can kinda understand them to a point that you know what they are, but not to a level where they interfere with the other elements.

3) After that I started playing with drums. I'm new to Logic, so I admit. They are based around the loop ClubBeat 006. That loop wasn't enough though, so I programmed more with the Deephouse kit in Ultrabeat and layered them with the loop, and then used the Latin kit for the percussive elements that sit on top and drive the track along. In retrospect I could have done more to break the drums up and vary them, but it just about gets away with it...

4) The bassline. It's pretty simple. It was done using a VST plugin called Z3ta on my old PC rig, and then processed in Logic. I used the P-Dist, St-Delay, Linear EQ and Compressor.

5) The keys and piano. These relied on a lot of trickery. Start with just about any EXS24 piano. Piano has filter, Space Designer, Compressor and Channel EQ.
Keys are B/Crushed, Space designer, Compressor and Chan EQ. Keys panned one way, piano paned the other slightly. Just to put some space between them and other parts.

6) The filter noise can be well mimicked using the Es1, but again this was done elsewhere and wav'd in. I bounced it with the delay on...lucky it worked really !

7) The strings. ESX24 'Pop' seting, modified slightly. With a slow out of phase filter to make it sound like the string is panning between left and right. Space designer and flage were also used.

Vocal processing. The dry vocal was actually quite tidy. I set a chromatic/free pitch correction just to stop any major wobbles. Then another Space designer and compressor.. I then set up an aux for the more interesting bits with delays and a tiny, tiny amount of bitcrusher on one of them.

9) The final mix is the tricky part. I've sent a copy off to the label to meet the d/line, but I'm still working as I know it can be better!
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Old 4th September 2008 , 06:39 AM
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Great stuff Modz1 and EdRyan!!!
Lots of detail which is great.

Three questions:

1) Thinking of the two remixes I mentioned earlier, I suppose the Johnny Cash is restricitve ("with musical handcuffs" - Modz1) while the Public Enemy one is like a completely blank slate in that as a rap you could, I suppose, do practically anything. Does this make it easier or more difficult, do you think?

2) What's the best way to timestretch a vocal file? Is there a preferred program.

3) You mentioned bpms of 126-128 and I think I read on a thread (that rhymes!) that the Public Enemy vocal was at 80bpm. Is it possible/realistic to time stretch to 127? Is there a loss in quality for such a difference or does a time stretch program take care of all that?

Thanks in advance
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Old 4th September 2008 , 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modz1 View Post
I've been remixing tracks for, shall we say, a considerable amount of time. All have been dance oriented, whether considered underground or cross-over and even pop/dance. A few years ago I started doing lectures for colleges and universities where one of my most popular sessions was, 'The Anatomy of a Remix'. During these sessions I would start with a blank Logic arrange page, and take the students (over a two hour period) through the significant stages of a remix (usually of a recognisable track so they really could feel/see/hear the difference).
Any video or other material available on these session, Modz1?
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Old 4th September 2008 , 07:27 AM
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Having a blank canvas can be a blessing or a curse. Sometimes you'll really struggle. Other times you can instantly hear what you want to do..

Difficulty is relevant to the original material, and where you want to take it.. Ie it's often easier to remix within a genre, then it is to do a remix to take a song and make it work within another style. That said, if you've got a song that you don't think you can improve upon, then you're often at a brick wall in terms of creativity. I hate it when that happens

As for time-stretching. This is a bit of a tricky one..

Most time-stretch programs sound terrible if you go for +/- more then 10%, because of the process they use to resample the signal. The RX one is quite good. I know a lot of peopel that still by the Serato Pitch N Time. I loved that on my pc..

You can go from 80 to 12-something and get away with it. It depends on the material and your program. For example, I speak to Danny from Moto Blanco quite a lot. They're always remixing slower tracks into club format. They were asked to do a remix of Leona Lewis's follow up from Bleedin (annoying) Love. They did a mix of that, and quite frankly it was a sterling effort. But for the follow up, they asked for the vocals to be re-sung, because they were proper mangled by the time-stretch. She was too busy to go in and do it, so they didn't do the mix.

That gives me an idea. Modz...
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Old 4th September 2008 , 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdRyan View Post
As for time-stretching. This is a bit of a tricky one..

Most time-stretch programs sound terrible if you go for +/- more then 10%, because of the process they use to resample the signal. The RX one is quite good. I know a lot of peopel that still by the Serato Pitch N Time. I loved that on my pc..
Not familiar with either of those ED. I've found Serato on DV but what is RX?
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Old 4th September 2008 , 09:07 AM
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I meant this

iZotope, Inc - Audio Processing Technology and Plug-Ins for Pro Tools, VST, MAS, Audio Unit, and DirectX

Genius piece of kit. Will set you back around 200, but it's probably the best at what it does. It uses a newer sample window analysis method that is way more accurate then what you get in the box with Logic, Cubase, Protools etc..
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Old 6th September 2008 , 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdRyan View Post
I meant this

iZotope, Inc - Audio Processing Technology and Plug-Ins for Pro Tools, VST, MAS, Audio Unit, and DirectX

Genius piece of kit. Will set you back around 200, but it's probably the best at what it does. It uses a newer sample window analysis method that is way more accurate then what you get in the box with Logic, Cubase, Protools etc..
hey ed do you prefer radius or melodyne's algorithm?
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Old 7th September 2008 , 10:24 AM
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Modz1, given your experience and that of many others here on the forums, how about we kick start an online DV Forums Remix Workshop for those of us who have little or no experience?
  • A tune could be chosen
  • A basic list of software (commercial and/or free) could be recommended
  • A style could be suggested
  • Some production techniques could be suggested
  • Participants could share their remixes with each other
  • Participants could get feed back on their progress

Wouldn't it be nice some day if a DV Forums member was to gain recognition or be chosen as the winner in a remix competition?
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Old 7th September 2008 , 11:51 AM
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Hi Sphelan
Great suggestion! I'm happy to get involved and make that work for the members..
Let me give it some detailed thought and will come back to you soon...
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