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Old 5th March 2009 , 08:41 AM
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Default Drum Track Processing

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Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
A messy video but you get the idea lol.....

Following on from cane creek's video above, I want to ask about the next stage of the process after you have assembled the gooves/beats you want.

I remember Sureno suggesting in the past that I send my drum track to a separate buss for processing. If I remember rightly it was connected with using individual samples for each drum part as opposed to patterns in a ROMpler.

What's the story here using loops and drum patterns from the likes of Guru, Ultrabeat and other drum romplers?

Do people send these to a buss for processing or are pretty much finished when sequenced in the track as in the video above?

Cane, what do you do next in your workflow regarding the rhythm section of a track?
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Old 5th March 2009 , 10:11 AM
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I tend to put my kick drums on one separate Guru instance to add compression as im a compression junkie and all the other percussion i run on another instance of Guru.

If i want to add effects seperatly to any individual percussion , simply open another instance of Guru and drag the midi into its track in my Daw then add the effects.

you can open Guru as multi timberal and add effect to individual drums in the pattern by using sends etc in logics mixer or just use Guru's own built in effects.

you could even for example say you have 5 different pieces of percussion open 5 identical instances of GURU on 5 separate tracks all with the same kit & pattern and midi file (which can be done very quick using the duplicate feature in logic) , then go into each instance and mute 4 out of the 5 percussions and all 5 instances , then you can add your own 3rd party effect separatly to each piece of percussion if you'd find that easier than send/bussing everything.
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Old 5th March 2009 , 10:18 AM
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as there is so many patterns/banks/sounds i would do a few things.

firstly let me add i dont think CC would normally work in this fashion or would most people as i believe he showed such variation for illustrative purposes.

if i had to work this way then i would first choose sounds that needed the least amount of work, this is always the best 1st step imo. choose your drums so they need little tweaking, sometimes this is not possible so i would then tweak as much as i could with in GURU using it's effects however i have read they are not too clever any way no problem i would in that case

demix each track by pitch, this basically means it visually divides each engine into a seperate track for notes used, this way i can bounce the troublesome drum sounds using the key command "s" to solo an individual track because if you solo the engine track it will just solo the whole engine rather than midi region. any way having bounced what drums im not happy with to audio i can then re import them into the project, apply any processing and then like i mentioned before do my thang with the grouping them to a aux track and getting freaky with some compression and saturation

but if starting from scratch i would work in a whole other manor tbh
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Old 5th March 2009 , 10:26 AM
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So basically, grabbing loops, "banging" them into a track or arranging a track around them is not enough, right? It's better to treat each drum part. But presumably drum loops are recorded, in the main, by professional musicians in professional recording sessions. Should they not then be equivalent to hiring your own session musician for a track? Should it not be enough to "bang em in" and be done with it?
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Old 5th March 2009 , 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphelan View Post
So basically, grabbing loops, "banging" them into a track or arranging a track around them is not enough, right? It's better to treat each drum part. But presumably drum loops are recorded, in the main, by professional musicians in professional recording sessions. Should they not then be equivalent to hiring your own session musician for a track? Should it not be enough to "bang em in" and be done with it?
you can most certainly do this, in fact this is the easier option and a lot of top producers do so, just use pre made loops and arrange it how you wish. how ever this is frowned upon in some circles for lack of imagination/soul and character, a track you make is about putting yourself into it, achieving the sound you like, of coarse as you said you can knock some loops together but this is simply arranging some one elses work imo.
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Old 5th March 2009 , 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphelan View Post
So basically, grabbing loops, "banging" them into a track or arranging a track around them is not enough, right? It's better to treat each drum part. But presumably drum loops are recorded, in the main, by professional musicians in professional recording sessions. Should they not then be equivalent to hiring your own session musician for a track? Should it not be enough to "bang em in" and be done with it?
I do this all the time, but usually because of stoopid deadlines. If using some canned drums means I can spend more time on instrument parts that have to be 100% ground-up original then the track is/was usually for the better because of it.
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Old 5th March 2009 , 10:56 AM
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I get the argument about being original and making something your own. It is my preferred way of working. But I notice that many ROMplers have premade loops and there are thousands of sample libraries after that. They are obviously there for a reason.

If you go the route like T3, do you still go and add compression etc or is the finish loop good enough as is?

I imagine it's more complicated to do more with a commercial loops without resorting to cutting it up in to pieces to apply such processing...but doesn't that defeat the purpose and leave you back to the route of constructing your own loop from individual samples?

I'm preparing myself psychologically for what I hope will be serious music making on my part starting within the next few weeks...yes, the toddler is starting school in about a fortnight (yes! and...no! mixed emotions having most of the day with him for the last 20 months!!!). Anyway, as I am not a drummer, and I think the drum track is one of the fundamental places to start a track, I am just wondering which route I should take intitially.

I hear what you say T3 about knocking something up fast to allow you concentrate on the rest of the track. Do you usually keep the original drum track or do you go back and change it after the track is pretty much together?
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Old 5th March 2009 , 11:08 AM
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the beauty of this game is to do what ever you wish, dont feel restrained, you can also still use a loop and apply certain process' to make it your own
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Old 5th March 2009 , 11:10 AM
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Quote:
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edit: Anyway, as I am not a drummer, and I think the drum track is one of the fundamental places to start a track, I am just wondering which route I should take intitially.
Regarding the above Shane, for me, pretty much 99% of the time I start with the groove, drum track etc..But then again I primarily make dance music so it's an *important* factor.

For your 'initial route', just experiment and have fun.. mess around with loops, cut 'em up, re-arrange them, replace sounds.. when you hear something that sounds right (here we go again..repeating myself), it is right, and you'll all of a sudden find your best workflow method without probably even realising you were trying to in the first place
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Old 5th March 2009 , 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphelan View Post
I get the argument about being original and making something your own. It is my preferred way of working. But I notice that many ROMplers have premade loops and there are thousands of sample libraries after that. They are obviously there for a reason.

If you go the route like T3, do you still go and add compression etc or is the finish loop good enough as is?

I imagine it's more complicated to do more with a commercial loops without resorting to cutting it up in to pieces to apply such processing...but doesn't that defeat the purpose and leave you back to the route of constructing your own loop from individual samples?

I'm preparing myself psychologically for what I hope will be serious music making on my part starting within the next few weeks...yes, the toddler is starting school in about a fortnight (yes! and...no! mixed emotions having most of the day with him for the last 20 months!!!). Anyway, as I am not a drummer, and I think the drum track is one of the fundamental places to start a track, I am just wondering which route I should take intitially.

I hear what you say T3 about knocking something up fast to allow you concentrate on the rest of the track. Do you usually keep the original drum track or do you go back and change it after the track is pretty much together?
Well, the answer as it often is to all of your questions is 'it depends.'

Depends on the track, depends on the mix, depends on the deadline.

I'll add compression and EQ and reverb or other effects if it needs it, and only if it needs it. As far as revisiting it, when I was doing music for picture nearly every day of every week the answer would usually be 'no' - no time, I'd have to deliver and move on.
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Old 5th March 2009 , 12:16 PM
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Cheers guys and thanks for bearing with me. Maybe I ask stupid questions but I hope I don't. Just trying to get some procedures clear in me auld coco!
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Old 5th March 2009 , 01:02 PM
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Quote:
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Cheers guys and thanks for bearing with me. Maybe I ask stupid questions but I hope I don't. Just trying to get some procedures clear in me auld coco!
you should really be experimenting now, post up audio samples etc for feed back, advice it all helps.

one bit of advice i can confidently offer is that it wont come immediately, if your starting out just like myself it takes a long time to grasp, understand etc what you want. obviously some pick it up quicker than others but it's not about "some" it's about you mate, you should just be churning stuff out as with all those mistakes you make along the way hopefully you will pick up solutions for them and methods to avoid them in the first place

your not faced with deadlines etc so you dont really have a pressure other than your own determination pushing you on, so as previous posters have suggested, try try try you really have nothing to loose
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Old 6th March 2009 , 03:01 PM
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Not sure if any of you use groove monkee but if you bought:

Qualifying Purchases: Electronic, Funk/HH/RB, World Beats, Producer Pack 1, Producer Pack 2 or Studio Pack.


FREE GURU Loops!

We've got 225 free loops for you this month. GURU bundles (15) of Funk, Hip Hop, R&B and perc grooves with tempo info and kit recommendations. Customers who purchased any of the following packs download them from the customer download area (top menu, right side).



There's also 25% off all midi loops across the board with a promotional code.
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Old 6th March 2009 , 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Am_Bic_Pentameter View Post
Not sure if any of you use groove monkee but if you bought:

Qualifying Purchases: Electronic, Funk/HH/RB, World Beats, Producer Pack 1, Producer Pack 2 or Studio Pack.


FREE GURU Loops!

We've got 225 free loops for you this month. GURU bundles (15) of Funk, Hip Hop, R&B and perc grooves with tempo info and kit recommendations. Customers who purchased any of the following packs download them from the customer download area (top menu, right side).



There's also 25% off all midi loops across the board with a promotional code.

I've just downloaded 350 freebie samples from there
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Old 6th March 2009 , 07:18 PM
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still waiting for my GURU, think monday now
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