Tip for dance music producers with DJ rigs

[Khazul]

The subject of reference tracks came up in this thread.

Like alot of people I used to periodically check my stuff against other material for sonic balance etc, and very occasionallyy collect and load of track together and try 'DJing' it along side similar music to pick up sound/arrnagement issues etc.

For various reasons Ive ended up getting a full DJrig again in here and found a really useful benefit of having it available for production that I didnt quite expect.

Basically what Ive done Is to run feeds from my production mixer and computer to the DJ mixer along with convenient signal routing so that while I am workiing on a track on the computer in Ableton Live, I can quickly route the audio out out of the computer to the DJ mixer, stick in a couple of CDs, or a couple of records and literally try mixing it there and then.

The kind of things this is showing up right from the start is immediate comparisons of thinking like how the kick and bass sound alonside contemporary tracks, how the mix balance is working, how the sounds are working, are the intro and outros 'DJ firendly' enough etc, what the energy over a mix into the new track- same/up/down etc.

I'll quickly slap on a limiter before I do this just so the output from the computer gets a comparable dynamic range - it helps if you having a forgiving limiter - I use the UA Precision series limiter.

I used to do this in ableton ages ago, but it was allways alot of hassle loading in tracks, syncing them up etc that it became too dustracting and in the end didnt gain much, but now with a Dj mixer and some decks then suddenly going thorugh this process has become very quick and spontaneous and actually quite inspiring.

So for anyone else with a handy DJ rig - get it hitched up to your studio gear and fully integrated, if can be quite an eye (or rather ear!) opener and the inspiration gains from mixing your early arrangement or loops should not be forgetten either.

What is also interesting, is that as comparisons are ongoing, then by the time you have a 'final' mix together, its allready a good balance and mastering is probably little more than gentle limiting to deal with stray peaks.

The concepts are of course applicable bbeyond dance music, its just in mixable dance music there are more opportunities to benefit and you're more likely to have suitable gear to do it.

[sureno]

interesting post K, usually il play my track through speakers i usually Dj through at home with but i suppose that is the same principal as running a reference track through your mix down monitors

[Khazul]

Its not just about comparing for sound balance etc its about getting a much deeper insighte into the whole track in the context of a set. The point is to actually transition it against something and see how the result feels / sounds etc, note what you would do as a DJ to compensate for differences etc, or what just plan grates - it tells me so much more than simply stick some ither tracks on and listening to them, then listening to your own.

For eg
- if everytime you mix it with something and you feel you want to seriously tweak the bass or top end, or even pull lead/vocal sounds out, then you maybe you need to work on the overall mix and/or sounds used.

- if the kick just sounds limp against anything else it should go with, then maybe you need to go work on it with a new sample, compression, saturation, EQ etc.

- If you feel an unexpected slump (or unexpected rise that you dont want etc) in energy as you mix to it, then you need to work on its overall feel etc, perhaps the arrangement.

- If the intro or outro is a real pain to mix with (ie overly rich chords, sounds etc or just too busy) then you know you need to work on the arrangement of those bits.

These are just examples of the kind of things that I am finding glaringly obvious at an early stage rather than as usual much later when I have a full preview mix available, and it can be painful to fix (due to audio routing complexity, fx chains complexity and inter-dependecies etc).

[JAYDMF]

Very cool post. Good idea, the only thing i would say is that maybe just maybe this could be heading into the territory of making a tune solely for the purpose of mixing and are you more worried about what the guy mixing the track wants compared to what the track as a track in its own right needs ?

not trying to criticise here by any means so please dont take it that way its just that i came across this kinda thing when i started out making tunes by trying to make tunes that are like commercial tracks rather than just doing what comes to mind and the results were worse than just making quirky tunes that maybe only i liked.

I guess what im saying is make the tune how you feel the tune should be made and let the guy mixing deal with his mix. If you are making tunes for commercial purposes - ie to be mixed - this is void but i tend these days not to get wrapped up in thinking about what anyone else wants or how it could be mixed (not that anyone would probably be mixing the tunes i make i'd add but) and just get on with making the tune

[Khazul]

You point about creating for mixing is absolutely true - butif you are doing dance music tagertted for your or someone else to DJ, then that kind of the point.

In the end I guess you take or leave what test mixes tell you - perhaps you love your deep ambient intro and really really dont want a beat over it and dont care if it cant mix with anything else (I know Im terrible for intros and outros with too much tonal content in them and not enough beat)

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by Khazul

You point about creating for mixing is absolutely true - butif you are doing dance music tagertted for your or someone else to DJ, then that kind of the point.

In the end I guess you take or leave what test mixes tell you - perhaps you love your deep ambient intro and really really dont want a beat over it and dont care if it cant mix with anything else (I know Im terrible for intros and outros with too much tonal content in them and not enough beat)

I'm with you on the whole intro outro point, i'll put my hand up for being bad at that one.

I'm no DJ so its not really my place to really judge but i can just about mix and i tend to find that the tune that is a tune in its own right but will also mix is the most pleasing to me. Theres a lot of DnB tunes that i love when theyre being mixed but sound absolute sh*te when on their own but then theres some like some of the DJ Fresh tunes that sound good on their own or in a whomping mix.

[sureno]

initially reading this topic i was a little unsure what exactly this would achieve that relied upon actually mixing your track.... been thinking about it and i must say i have had the privilege of listening to K's stuff and its tight, im no way near his stuff so im sure his advice is well worth taking heed of.

coming back to this method if mixing your track with a ref track that mixes well and sounds fat i could imagine this offers a certain barr to meet, if anything sounds out or not enough a seamless mix would show it, are the hats too sharp, levels need tweaking to integrate the two etc etc, but the only down side imo is this would be track specific