DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers Lowest Price Guaranteed, Free Delivery, Free 3 Year Warranty
Go Back   DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers > Technique > Recording & Mixing
Forgot Password? Join Us!
Home Register Groups FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Go to DV247.com
New to Forums or just joined? Why not start your journey here?

Recording & Mixing Pimped rig but got no mojo? Learn from the experts here

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12th February 2012 , 12:28 PM
Tarnce Monkey
 
tehlord's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,863
Default Rock mix. Advizes please!

I'm doing a little international band collab with a few chums and we're doing some rawk.

I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to mixing teh rock so i'd be interested to hear some comments on what I'm doing here. Firstly I know the vocals are too loud, and i'm getting the bass part redone as I think it spends too much time on high notes and is interfering with the vocals a little too much. What i'm struggling with most is getting the guitars wide enough. I've got one of the rhythm parts panned hard left and right but without using channel delay (which introduces phasing) I need pointers on how to get those a lot wider. I've also undermixed the drums (I've got kick, 2 snare, toms and 2 overheads to it's flexible) so i'll push those forward a little bit.

Any other comments on this admittedly rough mix are welcome. I put it in here as I suspect I'll have some very specific mix questions along the way!


http://soundcloud.com/bluffmunkey/whizz-2012/s-VamSN





Cheers
tehlord is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 13th February 2012 , 04:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 187
Default

The guitar does sound very centred. The vocal doesnít match the instrumentation at all its like two very different spaces and yes you could get away with bringing the drums a little forward in the mix. The instrumentation is pretty dry sounding where as the vox has all manner of verb delay applied. The guitars in particular have very little separation, btw phasing is not always a bad thing. You could try a little HAAS on them but I donít know if that in itself would make much of a difference to be fair as they do sound like very similar parts tonally. You could also try a little mid/Side processing to try and introduce a little more space but it would need to be very subtly done, on guitar bus, so as not to be too obvious. Unfortunately if you donít have a plug-in that will do M/S for you it does take a little bit of engineering know how. From memory I'm sure Voxengo does a free one called Voxengo MSED personally I prefer Blue cats offering.




------
weaver is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 13th February 2012 , 11:34 PM
Tarnce Monkey
 
tehlord's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaver View Post
The guitar does sound very centred. The vocal doesnít match the instrumentation at all its like two very different spaces and yes you could get away with bringing the drums a little forward in the mix. The instrumentation is pretty dry sounding where as the vox has all manner of verb delay applied. The guitars in particular have very little separation, btw phasing is not always a bad thing. You could try a little HAAS on them but I donít know if that in itself would make much of a difference to be fair as they do sound like very similar parts tonally. You could also try a little mid/Side processing to try and introduce a little more space but it would need to be very subtly done, on guitar bus, so as not to be too obvious. Unfortunately if you donít have a plug-in that will do M/S for you it does take a little bit of engineering know how. From memory I'm sure Voxengo does a free one called Voxengo MSED personally I prefer Blue cats offering.
I think that's a fair assement

It's weird, this mix was sounding ok just after I rendered it (apart from those vocals) and now every time I play it back I think it's worse than the last time. Just out of my comfort zone with this one (for now...)

I've got a couple of M/S EQ's that I use all the time, so i'll give those a try (dunno why I didn't think of it before ). I'll also revisit the channel but when I tried it before at various settings it not only caused some unpleasant phasing but also took a lot of bite out of the guitars. I could always go a little more extreme with the differential EQ as well.

I'm frustrated with the vocals as well though as I think his voice begs for FX, but every time I apply them I don't like the result.

Back to the old drawing board as they say!

Thanks for the suggestions.
tehlord is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2012 , 02:12 PM
Mic Check 1!
 
TrevCircleStudios's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 3,829
Default

I don't usually comment on these types of threads but I can't help myself on this one... (I havent listened as I'm not on laptop but) let me ask a silly old fashioned question. Have you panned to different guitar takes or just split one take? If the latter, just record another take. It will get you to a much better place than trying to fix it in the mix.
______________________________
www.circlestudios.co.uk
TrevCircleStudios is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2012 , 04:09 PM
Tarnce Monkey
 
tehlord's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
I don't usually comment on these types of threads but I can't help myself on this one... (I havent listened as I'm not on laptop but) let me ask a silly old fashioned question. Have you panned to different guitar takes or just split one take? If the latter, just record another take. It will get you to a much better place than trying to fix it in the mix.

I do have two takes, one is quite warm and muffled and the other is crunchy with a lot of highs.

What i've done is doubled the warm one and panned it 50% L&R and then done the same with the crunchy one but panned that 100% L&R. I just don't think i'm doing enough to alter one from the other to create a truly wide sound. I could simply pan the different takes L&R but then i'm concerned about different tones in each stereo channel, although maybe i've still got my electronic mixing hat on. I've just run those two takes in Audacity quickly and having them hard panned obviously gives the width, i'll just see how that works in the mix!
tehlord is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2012 , 04:28 PM
Mic Check 1!
 
TrevCircleStudios's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 3,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehlord View Post
I do have two takes, one is quite warm and muffled and the other is crunchy with a lot of highs.

What i've done is doubled the warm one and panned it 50% L&R and then done the same with the crunchy one but panned that 100% L&R. I just don't think i'm doing enough to alter one from the other to create a truly wide sound. I could simply pan the different takes L&R but then i'm concerned about different tones in each stereo channel, although maybe i've still got my electronic mixing hat on. I've just run those two takes in Audacity quickly and having them hard panned obviously gives the width, i'll just see how that works in the mix!
Dont double either of them. Send one hard left and one hard right.
______________________________
www.circlestudios.co.uk
TrevCircleStudios is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2012 , 04:50 PM
Tarnce Monkey
 
tehlord's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
Dont double either of them. Send one hard left and one hard right.
I shall give that a whirl old fruit.


Obligados.
tehlord is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 14th February 2012 , 05:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
Dont double either of them. Send one hard left and one hard right.


I had read that differently I had read it as Tehlord had both guitars panned one hard L and the other hard R, sorry about that my mistake. Now that is cleared up I'm just echoing what Trev says really because what you're in effect doing is big mono. If I were tackling this project I would mix from the Vox, dry to begin with. Once you have a clearer focus from the placements in the stereo picture and you still feel that vox and guitars need applying verb/delay I would be careful of using anything other than a decent plate on either with a HPF in and around the 160Hz area and with about 25 to 75mS of pre-delay but I'd also keep a close eye on the tails best not to let them swamp the next note if at all possible (keeping the effects mix as musical as possible). After listening to it again I think you have other decisions to make especially between the Bass and Bdrum. I've also assumed that you've checked for bleed and other such muddying problems via summing.


------
weaver is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 17th February 2012 , 10:22 AM
Tarnce Monkey
 
tehlord's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaver View Post
I had read that differently I had read it as Tehlord had both guitars panned one hard L and the other hard R, sorry about that my mistake. Now that is cleared up I'm just echoing what Trev says really because what you're in effect doing is big mono. If I were tackling this project I would mix from the Vox, dry to begin with. Once you have a clearer focus from the placements in the stereo picture and you still feel that vox and guitars need applying verb/delay I would be careful of using anything other than a decent plate on either with a HPF in and around the 160Hz area and with about 25 to 75mS of pre-delay but I'd also keep a close eye on the tails best not to let them swamp the next note if at all possible (keeping the effects mix as musical as possible). After listening to it again I think you have other decisions to make especially between the Bass and Bdrum. I've also assumed that you've checked for bleed and other such muddying problems via summing.
Sorry dude I missed this post.

Ya i'm gating the drum parts to avoid as much bleed as possible. I'm also using a single room reverb (Valhalla Room) on a send, although I may use another one for the vocal a little later on, I'm not sure yet.

I'm just waiting for the bass part to be redone and then i'll get right back on it!

Thanks again for the advice fellas.
tehlord is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
You Rock Guitar Lester New Product Suggestions 0 15th August 2011 11:09 PM
new rock song... instigator Peer Review 0 31st December 2009 01:19 PM
another rock song... instigator Peer Review 6 25th September 2009 02:35 PM
AC/DC Rock AmpliTube! modz1 Music Software 0 24th November 2008 04:52 PM
Desert rock anyone??? Rowly Promote Your Band 3 26th July 2008 08:33 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0
1999-2017 DV247 Ltd. All rights reserved.