Dealing with clashing frequencies

[FrankGIK]

Originally Posted by sureno

thanks guys, yes im fully aware of that, i would really just use it to put it simply learn what certain frequency characteristics are rather than as a go to tool every time i want to know a frequency band, i eventually want to be able to listen to a bass sound for example and have a rough idea where the main body(s) of frequency lay so then i could may be choose the other sounds around that and hopefully give each sound a rough separation, thats when i use an EQ right? to polish off anything i feel could be clashing unnecessarily, i should start by listening to and EQ'ing basic sounds right? maybe like mention earlier a bass and kick drum? would i be looking for the "presence" of the sound i.e where does that sound seem to be most prominent frequency wise? and choose them like that?

That's pretty much it.

For example, if I know I want the kick drum to ride beneath the bass, I'll have to track the kick with a good click to it, then know that I'll be scooping all the low mids out, leaving the 70Hz filter off and giving it a bump at 50Hz. Then with the bass I'll engage the 70Hz filter, and give the low end a boost, which creates a narrow bump at 80Hz or so, then make sure I've got a bunch of midrange in the bass...nice boost centered at 700Hz or so...then I nuke it with an 1176 in all buttons mode. That'll make it punchy, growly and separate from the kick.

See the process? I knew where I wanted to go, I knew where the fundamentals were, and I was able to create distinction in each instrument without making it sound like something it's not. It's all about experience and practice.

Frank

[sureno]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

No not necessarily. This is where mixing with your eyyes will take you off course. What to emphase/cut is the sound characteristic you want/don't want. Find that by using your ears by sweeping the EQ like I explained earlier til you find the bit you want/don't want. Beware your eyes!

sorry thats my bad, i should of said listen for the presence but id still be wrong.lol cool i got you once i found the rough area i don't want do i adjust the Q, widening it slowly (start narrow?) till i remove what i desire?

[TrevCircleStudios]

if you are cutting then use a narrow Q, if you are boosting, then use wide. Probably worth going back and reading the early posts to make sure you have it.

[sureno]

Originally Posted by FrankGIK

That's pretty much it.

For example, if I know I want the kick drum to ride beneath the bass, I'll have to track the kick with a good click to it, then know that I'll be scooping all the low mids out, leaving the 70Hz filter off and giving it a bump at 50Hz. Then with the bass I'll engage the 70Hz filter, and give the low end a boost, which creates a narrow bump at 80Hz or so, then make sure I've got a bunch of midrange in the bass...nice boost centered at 700Hz or so...then I nuke it with an 1176 in all buttons mode. That'll make it punchy, growly and separate from the kick.

See the process? I knew where I wanted to go, I knew where the fundamentals were, and I was able to create distinction in each instrument without making it sound like something it's not. It's all about experience and practice.

Frank

ok im kinda lost now but are you saying the scoop will end/start at 70Hz so that 20-70Hz is unaffected then at 50Hz give it a notch type filter? with the bass you would cut anything below 70Hz? at around 80Hz a low shelf to boost it between the cut off and the start of the shelf then the mid boost at 700Hz after this the 1176 lost me, i presume its some sort of compressor right?

As for the process i need to be able to associate methods to achieve the sound i want and know what that the sound i want is frequency wise. this is exactly what i was struggling with i kind of hear the sound in my head that i want but haven't a clue how to achieve it, i think this conversation with you guys has narrowed my road to achieving it still a damn long road though

[sureno]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

if you are cutting then use a narrow Q, if you are boosting, then use wide. Probably worth going back and reading the early posts to make sure you have it.

will do Nice one guys
just saw it, ok cool gentle boosts.

[JAYDMF]

Ahh all buttons in mode is sweet, doesnt always work but when it does by jaysus its something else. And sureno yeah your right the 1176 is a comp. Theres one thing i like about the tools plug ins and thats that all buttons in mode works. only ever had the pleasure of using a real 1176 once or twice but all buttons in really is something when it works

[TrevCircleStudios]

only ever had the pleasure of using a real 1176 once or twice

I have a rather special 1176:

[sureno]

Trev is that you on the right

[TrevCircleStudios]

Yes. And Michael Wagener on the left.

[sureno]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Yes. And Michael Wagener on the left.

cool did he come free with the 1176

[FrankGIK]

That is the one thing that I miss about not working at the old studio....three 1176's, two LA-2A's and a Stereo EL8. Okay, two things: we had an old U67 too...oh, and a sidecar with a bunch of 1073's in it...

...man. I was feeling good until I typed all that. My gear sucks.

Frank

[sureno]

ok iv been trying out mixing a simple kick drum to how Trev mention, i put high gain and sharp q on an Eq and i hear a kind of "ping" sound i can't explain it any better it just gives a pinging on the kick how do i know what i should take out if all im hearing is this horrible sound all through out the sweep? should i Eq kicks differently?

[FrankGIK]

Originally Posted by sureno

ok iv been trying out mixing a simple kick drum to how Trev mention, i put high gain and sharp q on an Eq and i hear a kind of "ping" sound i can't explain it any better it just gives a pinging on the kick how do i know what i should take out if all im hearing is this horrible sound all through out the sweep? should i Eq kicks differently?

Every one is different. You're getting a "ping" because you're boosting too high and too steep at the attack fundamental. You're getting all attack and nothing else. I'd try a very shallow curve ("Q" of 1) and just a little bit of boost...2 or 3dB at the most at around 3Khz or so. Cut centered at 700Hz, broader bandwidth ("Q" of 2 or 3)...this is usually a brutal cut...-12, -15dB...put a high-pass filter at 25Hz or so. Move the midrange cut around until you're hearing the "click" of the attack and a big, meaty thump below it.

Then again, if you're working with an 18" kick with the batter head and the reso head tuned tight, you'll never get a big, meaty thud.

Frank

[sureno]

Originally Posted by FrankGIK

Every one is different. You're getting a "ping" because you're boosting too high and too steep at the attack fundamental. You're getting all attack and nothing else. I'd try a very shallow curve ("Q" of 1) and just a little bit of boost...2 or 3dB at the most at around 3Khz or so. Cut centered at 700Hz, broader bandwidth ("Q" of 2 or 3)...this is usually a brutal cut...-12, -15dB...put a high-pass filter at 25Hz or so. Move the midrange cut around until you're hearing the "click" of the attack and a big, meaty thump below it.

Then again, if you're working with an 18" kick with the batter head and the reso head tuned tight, you'll never get a big, meaty thud.

Frank

ok thanks for clearing that up Frank i really want to suss this that cut does seem very brutal, would imagine it completely changes the sound, would be great if some one more experienced could run a type of listen to the difference thread

[FrankGIK]

Originally Posted by sureno

ok thanks for clearing that up Frank i really want to suss this that cut does seem very brutal, would imagine it completely changes the sound, would be great if some one more experienced could run a type of listen to the difference thread

I can't do it tonight, but I'll see if I can put together an A/B clip for tomorrow. Remember that most recorded music is not about "realism", it's about suspension of disbelief. Come on...how many of you have heard a live kick? Does it sound anything like those big, clicky kicks you get in 95% of pop music? Don't worry that your kick doesn't sound anything like the ones you hear on the radio...neither do theirs before the process them

Frank