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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11th December 2010 , 09:58 PM
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unless you have a good sounding room I'd steer clear of letting too much room into your mic. As most ribbons are figure 8 pattern (save for the beyer 160) that pretty much counts them out. I'd try your sm57 on one cone and the nt5 on the other. Phase align them. bear in mind the closer towards the centre of the cone you point the mic the treblier/thinner sound you'll get so if you are getting 'thin' sounds move it towards the edge of the cone. An inch makes all the difference with this stuff so get your headphones on and listen for where you get the fattest sound (if you dont have a signal generator just get the volume on your amp cranked so you get a load of hiss)
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Old 11th December 2010 , 10:14 PM
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Cheers man, i'll give that a try. The one problem i do have though is it's only the vt15 amp i'm using so it only has the one speaker cone. Is it ok to position 2 mics on the one cone? Would it be a good idea for me to think about maybe investing in a larger amp at some stage for this sort of thing?
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Old 11th December 2010 , 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piano View Post
Cheers man, i'll give that a try. The one problem i do have though is it's only the vt15 amp i'm using so it only has the one speaker cone. Is it ok to position 2 mics on the one cone? Would it be a good idea for me to think about maybe investing in a larger amp at some stage for this sort of thing?
Two on one cone is fine. It's just a bit fiddlier. Does the VT15 have a speaker out? If so maybe just but a 2x12 to run it
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Old 27th February 2011 , 08:06 PM
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Had a really bad day trying to get the right Guitar sound. Ended up spending hours recording the rhythm Guitar part for a new song only to delete the lot because it just didn't sound good. I've been finding myself layering and layering to try and get a full bodied sound but today it ended up sounding like a muddled mess. Very frustrating. I read somewhere that if you're having to layer guitars again and again to get a good sound, something is wrong.

I can't pinpoint what though. I don't know if it's the amp i have (VOX VT20+), the mics i'm using (nt5, sm57) , mic placement, my room or maybe something else. I have gotten decent sounds in the past but sometimes it just doesn't happen. I don't want to go down the route of using software for Guitars but there i have just wasted a whole day struggling to get a decent sound from miking my amp. The reason i feel i have to layer is simple, when i record a rhythm part on a single track it just sounds way too brittle and thin on it's own. As soon as i record the same part 2 or 3 times, only then does it start to sound halfway decent but it's a hit or a miss. Sometimes it sounds like a mish mash.

Days like this frustrate the hell out of me.
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Old 27th February 2011 , 08:34 PM
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Quote:
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... when i record a rhythm part on a single track it just sounds way too brittle and thin on it's own.
Among such recording experts I do not feel qualified to comment, especially as I haven't familiarised myself with your setup other than you have bought a Brian May guitar. However, a few questions come to mind:
- Which guitar, pickups (eg. neck, middle, bridge or a combination) and what were the volume and tone settings?
- Are you recording a dry or wet sound (other than distortion from the Vox)?
- Is the sound you hear in your head and heart the same as you hear coming out of the Vox?
- Is the sound you hear coming out of the Vox the same as you hear when you play the recording?
- Could a thin sound be a phasing problem? If so, did you try recording with just one mic?
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Old 27th February 2011 , 08:44 PM
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It's not that the sound is brittle because of pick up selection or anything like that, it's just thin sounding when it's on it's own as part of a song. As soon as you add another 2 or 3 tracks and pan them hard left and right, it always sounds better. I was using the BM Guitar, i usually have the bridge and middle pick up on and in phase.

I have recorded with just one mic before also but there is very little difference, the results are similar. Perhaps i just need to fiddle with the amp some more to try and get the sound I'm after and perhaps mess around a bit more with mic placement. I have had decent results before, but there is no getting away from the fact that i do have to layer quite a bit and that's when it can either work or become messy. Today it was messy!
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Old 27th February 2011 , 08:50 PM
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are you using both mics? If so are you ensuring they are phase matched as described above? 'Thin' and 'brittle' sound very much like 'out of phase'. If not, where are you putting the mic in relation to the speaker cone?
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Old 27th February 2011 , 10:10 PM
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Hi Piano, I do hope I am not insulting your common sense. Have you tried process of elimination? Swap one thing at a time and try a test recording to discover which item in the chain is causing the thin sound.
- Does a different guitar sound better?
- Does a different pickup combination sound better?
- Does having the volume and tone set higher on the amp and lower on the guitar improve things? Or vice versa?
- Does a different cable improve the sound?
- Does changing the amp's position help?
- Does a different mic or mic placement help?
- Does using one mic sound better or worse than using two?
- Does recording direct help achieve a closer sound to what you want?
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Old 28th February 2011 , 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
Hi Piano, I do hope I am not insulting your common sense. Have you tried process of elimination? Swap one thing at a time and try a test recording to discover which item in the chain is causing the thin sound.
- Does a different guitar sound better?
- Does a different pickup combination sound better?
- Does having the volume and tone set higher on the amp and lower on the guitar improve things? Or vice versa?
- Does a different cable improve the sound?
- Does changing the amp's position help?
- Does a different mic or mic placement help?
- Does using one mic sound better or worse than using two?
- Does recording direct help achieve a closer sound to what you want?
Not at all Lester,I appreciate the help. OK, forgetting Yesterdays problems for now. Every time i record Electric Guitar by miking my amp, i usually need at least 4 tracks of the same thing recorded before it sounds how i want and as big and full as i want. When i started miking the amp, i was using just the one mic which was the SM57 and i even had the same problem then which makes me think that it's not a phase issue. I think by saying thin and brittle i've understandably made you guys think that. What i mean is, i can get the sound from my amp that I'm looking for, I'll mic it up and record very low so as to not go above -24dbfs. I have the amps volume at full pelt, but the wattage low to ensure i still get a decent sound. When played back after recording, it just doesn't sound very big or full. If i repeat the process 2 or 3 times and pan hard left and right, only then does it start to sound better. Playing open chords is the main problem and it can either work or not. Yesterday it all just started to sound like a mish mash in that part of the song when i was playing open chords. I was recording a distorted sound using TS9 pedal going through my amp. I have managed to get decent results before using the same method mind you so it's strange.

To try and answer the questions above. I've had the same problems with my other elec Guitar. It's the same issue no matter what the pick up combination. Have to admit that i haven't tried another cable but i will try that. I have tried changing the amps position but only a little as i don't have much room to work with but that is something I've definitely thought of. I do move the mics to try and find the sweet spot but i still can't get a sound that would mean i don't have to record the same thing3 or 4 times to sound good. Using 2 mics usually sounds better, i usually have the NT5 going in and pan it to the left and the sm57 panned to the right. I still need to record multiple tracks of the same part though. Recording direct certainly sounds bigger and "closer".

I usually have my mics only an inch or 2 from the speaker cone just slightly off centre.
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Old 28th February 2011 , 12:12 PM
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We can deal with all of this stuff when you come down. There are soo many potential problems its easier just to walk though doing it. Am looking at dates in about a months time.
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Old 2nd July 2011 , 05:49 AM
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I've got a question. What can i do to help me find the "sweet spot"? Right now, i mic my little amp using 2 mics. A rode nt5 and an sm57. The problem is, most of the time i have to move them a little. Move up and play the Guitar to check the sound....go back and move them a little again....get up and check the sound...etc You get the idea. I can't find a way to get a constant sound coming from the amp so i can move the mics as i listen to the sound coming through the amp to find the best spot for them. I actually have them set up all the time just now in front of the amp as i found a position that sounded pretty good recently and i didn't want to move anything in case i lost that sound. Is it ok to keep my mics set up like that and not in their case?
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Old 2nd July 2011 , 10:32 AM
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It's fine to leave both of those mics set up once you've found the sweet spot. As per my original post the way to find it is to put on a pair of headphone , turn the amp down low enough so you can only hear the sound through the headphones and move the first mic around until it sound fullest. HAving done that pan the first mic hard to one side. No start pan the other mic hard to the other side and start moving it around. As the mics come into phase (and therefore give you the biggest sound, you'll notice that the sound starts to thicken up and the image of the two mics seems to start to move from hard panned to dead centre (you may not get it dead centre as you are using two different mics). Give it a whirl and tell us how it goes!
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Old 3rd July 2011 , 08:47 AM
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FYI

Audacity will generate White, Pink and Brown noise.

Many DAWs despite their cost only do white.

Dave.
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Old 3rd July 2011 , 05:01 PM
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It should be fine in a smoke free environment. Thereís no real point in reiterating what Trev has already posted. As a quick aside though have you thought about recording Mid-Side? Well anyway thereís no point in me waffling on about Mid-side recording techniques when itís probably best to just link a you tube video explaining the process.



Now I donít know what microphone configurations you have but for this technique your nt5 would be fine acting as the Mid microphone but you would also need to use a microphone with a Ďfigure 8í setting to record the side, for guitar, I find ribbon microphones produce the best results but itís not only limited to ribbon. Hereís how to do the thing in cubase.




Nice and simple easy to set up quickly and effective into the bargain.



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Old 3rd July 2011 , 05:06 PM
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I'd be very surprised if he'd want to record M/S given that his room is a weakness in his chain.
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