Drum kit mic techniques

[JAYDMF]

Just out for some more ideas for drum mic techniques, my house is nearly back in one piece and i want to do some multi samples for battery as well as recording some breaks. My normal technique is :

2x Audio technica 4050s as overheads, spaced equal distance from the snare in either cardiod or omni
Either a d112 or 602 on the kick about a foot from the port
SM57 on top and sometimes on the bottom of the snare either that or a cheap samson drum mic on the bottom
SM58s or Samson Drum mics on rack toms
D112 or samson kick mic on floor tom
AKG 451 on hats
An ambient mic about 7/8 foot back, usually used either a 4033 or a tlm103 but theyre not mine so im open to suggestions on a mic for this position.

Kit is a Pearl export (so its not that great) but sizes are:

Kick:22x18
Snare:14x6.5
tom1:12x13
tom2:13x13
tom3: 16x16

Cymbals are all small, crashes are 14" and 16" but i have really loud ride.

Any help or ideas would be much appretiated.

[terminal3]

If you have or have access to a CAD M177 or M179 try it out on the toms. It's possibly the best tom mic there is at any price.

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by terminal3

If you have or have access to a CAD M177 or M179 try it out on the toms. It's possibly the best tom mic there is at any price.

Shall have to try that out when an oppertunity arises to get hold of one of those. Cheers dude.

[dvdan]

I'll second terminal3 for the cad m179 (sadly discontinued) on toms - even overheads... To be honest I rarely use more than 2 mics on a drum kit, but when I'm going for 'that' approach I use the recorderman technique for overheads: YouTube - Recorderman Overhead Drum technique you get a very natural overall kit sound with every drum sitting in its place nicely. Overheads could be 4033's or 421's or 414's or U87s... the usual suspects. SM57 or Karma K6 on snare.
AKG 421 on hats, 414's or m179s on toms. I NEVER use the D112. Yuck. On kick duties are RE20, SM7B or U87.

The normal way that I will mic a drum kit will be one mic near the drummers right ear pointing towards the right rim of the snare looking down, or one mic 2-3 feet in front of the snare drum facing upwards slightly. Normally I'll stick a mic in front of the kick as well if it needs more low end.

As for mics I hardly ever use condensers... if I do it will be a U87, Karma K35 or a Rode K2. If its for the overhead I'll use a ribbon like the Karma K6, coles 4038 or any old dynamic as long as the drummer is good. If the mic is on the floor I'll use an SM7B or an RE20. Either one of those make great kick drum mics too.

As for a room mic - any cheap old ribbon cranked and compressed are perfect for the job! I've also had excellent results with the Rode K2 or U87 mics.

That probably covers about 80% of my drum recording... I experiment a lot. Oh yeah - always remember to watch your phasing! You can use string to measure equal distances from microphones to the drums and switch back and forth on the console to see what sounds the fullest.

[JAYDMF]

Cheers dude thats a nice in depth reply, i'll check out some of those mics and see where i get with them if i can get my hands on them. Much appreatiated

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by dvdan

I'll second terminal3 for the cad m179 (sadly discontinued) on toms

Umm, hate to call you out on this but the M179 is in no way discontinued. You can check with CAD if you don't believe me, but if that's the info you have then either your purchasers or your distributor is lying to you!

[dvdan]

Originally Posted by terminal3

Umm, hate to call you out on this but the M179 is in no way discontinued. You can check with CAD if you don't believe me, but if that's the info you have then either your purchasers or your distributor is lying to you!

No, you're quite right to call me on this - it's very important! It appears that I am mistaken... I was quite disssapointed when I was told these were discontinued, so far from being embarrassed at my error I'm happy that this mic still exists!

[CharlieHugall]

I always find that Sennheiser MD421's or even MD441's respond best on Toms if you are after a nice low/full tone. I tend to stay away from using condenser mics on toms because for me they seem to highlight resonances that detract from the attack and fullness of the Tom - but they can be great on jazz and bluesy stuff. Normally, I try and get my overheads to capture a fair bit of tom and use the close mics mainly for attack. also, Elevrovoice RE-20's are beautiful on floor/very low Toms if you haven't yet experimented with them - also, if you are recording in a room with a low ceiling, try and keep the overheads relatively low (just above mid-height in the room) as any higher tends to highlight ceiling reflections (unless of course you have acoustic treatment on your ceiling). Another way of avoiding phase problems with your overheads can be achieved by keeping the mics 3 times further apart than the distance between the individual mics and nearest sound source i.e. a crash or ride - not sure exactly why this works but it always seems to. as for recording breaks, there is a small stereo make-yourself microphone available from maplins (will try and find a link) it's about £7 and is incredibly full of character! The circuit has an amazing brickwall limiting quality when subjected to high SPL and gets the smashed-to-f**k room thing down beautifully

[DV Southampton]

I tend to do more live miking of drums than studio recording these days, but absolutely love my Audix set; D6 for Kick, D4 for floor tom, D2(s) for rack tom(s) an i5 on the top of the snare with the D1 clipped to the bottom, and then I've supplemented it with 3 AKG C451Bs for Hats and Overheads. I'd agree that the Sennheiser 421 are great and are probably the industry standard for recording toms, while the 414 or U87 are for Overheads. I'd also agree with DVDan about the D112 - although it is nice on bass guitar cabinets.

Speaking of 414's has anybody used the new 214's for drum overheads yet? Do they sound the same as their big brothers?

On the last record I did, we had AT4033's for Overheads and they sounded great for the drummer's Yamaha kit and Zildjian Avedis cymbals. We also used one of the 451' s on the bottom of the snare (don't forget your phase switch when double miking the snare!)

I don't know if anyone else saw the interview in SOS with The Feeling recently but they were putting a U87 pointing at the side of the snare as well to get a sound with more depth to it. I don't have any U87s unfortunately so can't compare.

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by DV Southampton

I

On the last record I did, we had AT4033's for Overheads and they sounded great for the drummer's Yamaha kit and Zildjian Avedis cymbals.

Yeah i like the AT4033 and 4050s more so than the c414s, they just add more air IMO the 414s can be good if you want really soft cymbals etc i guess its horses for courses but im certainly well impressed with the technicas

[Malius]

I'm just about to use a 414 and 214 for overheads, I will let you know the results.

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by Malius

I'm just about to use a 414 and 214 for overheads, I will let you know the results.

Awesome ive been interested in those 214s for a while. Info will be much appretiated.

[dvdan]

yeah, let me know how the 214's work out. very interested indeed.

[Fülöp]

I've not agree totally with dvdan, because the AKG D112 has a typish hard sound. It is quite cool on harder rock musics (on kick)

for snare try Electro Voice Co4 compare with Shure SM57. Not for all peaople, but for me Co4 is in some cases better. (and you buy 4 pieces of Co4 for 1 sm57 )
Overhead: try! RH Sound HST-02A!

[TrevCircleStudios]

My go to drum set up (so used on 9 of 10 occasions) tends to be:

Kick (inside): Shure Beta 91
Kick (outside): Yamaha Subkick
Snare (side): Oktava 219
Snare (top): Beyer MC201
Rack toms: Senheiser 604
Floor toms: Sennhesier 421
Overheads: Mecenary KM 69 or Cascade Fatheads
Room: Mac g4 laptop internal mic

(though I'm currently thinking a Josephson e22s might be a nice addition )