De Essing...

[Monarch]

How do you deal with it?

Any specific recommendations for Pop filters and any specific frequencies to use to surgically remove such a problem or reduce it?

I know of two plugins that can in some way help perhaps one more than the other (Spitfish and Eiosis De Esser) but do I really need a dedicated plug? Can't I just carefully adress any issues with EQ instead?

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by Monarch

How do you deal with it?

Any specific recommendations for Pop filters and any specific frequencies to use to surgically remove such a problem or reduce it?

I know of two plugins that can in some way help perhaps one more than the other (Spitfish and Eiosis De Esser) but do I really need a dedicated plug? Can't I just carefully adress any issues with EQ instead?

De-essers are actually compressors with very specific sidechains as opposed to EQs.

I do it by ear! The 'listen' function of any de-esser is all I need to isolate the problem. Just like you'd find a problem frequency in an instrument recording, for example, with a sweep using a narrow Q, same goes for de-essing. Just fiddle with the frequency the reduction is working at, you'll hear it when you hit it, and you can tweak accordingly.

It's easy to over-do it, so be careful.

If you have access to Pro Tools the new Massey De:Esser is pretty much the best plug-in I've used on any platform.

High-end plug-ins for Pro Tools

Outside Pro Tools I use the Eiosis as well, although I'm sure I don't take advantage of everything it can possible do, it's a surprisingly complex little devil.

[sureno]

yes was going to suggest MASSEY's new one but Rtas only i was gutted when he stopped AU porting

[Monarch]

Cheers guys...

Pity really...the Massey plug would have been my first option (looks great) but I don't use Pro Tools but the advice is very useful and gives me an excellent starting point. So it looks like a dedicated plugin is probably better.

The question is which one? Eliois I think use USB copy protection (I need to check) which is not something I would go for if that is the case. There must be others apart form the freebie Spitfish.

I guess I'll have to do a De esser plugin search...Thanks again guys.

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by Monarch

Cheers guys...

Pity really...the Massey plug would have been my first option (looks great) but I don't use Pro Tools but the advice is very useful and gives me an excellent starting point. So it looks like a dedicated plugin is probably better.

The question is which one? Eliois I think use USB copy protection (I need to check) which is not something I would go for if that is the case. There must be others apart form the freebie Spitfish.

I guess I'll have to do a De esser plugin search...Thanks again guys.

As far as freebies go, Spitfish is probably the best. The only reason I don't use it anymore is that it was never ported to Intel Mac (and never will be afaik).

The Eiosis does require a dongle, but I think you can choose between iLok and Syncrosoft, which is about as cool as it possible in a dongle scenario.

Before I had the Eiosis and the Massey I used Waves Rennaisance Deesser. It was good at the time but the aforementioned two are much better.

Sadly, it's iLok too. Avoiding dongles is gonna be tricky!

[sureno]

go spit fish oh how i wish they went intel

[Monarch]

Originally Posted by terminal3

As far as freebies go, Spitfish is probably the best. The only reason I don't use it anymore is that it was never ported to Intel Mac (and never will be afaik).

The Eiosis does require a dongle, but I think you can choose between iLok and Syncrosoft, which is about as cool as it possible in a dongle scenario.

Before I had the Eiosis and the Massey I used Waves Rennaisance Deesser. It was good at the time but the aforementioned two are much better.

Sadly, it's iLok too. Avoiding dongles is gonna be tricky!

Thanks T3. I wasn't sure how capable Spitfish is. But you appear to rate it quite well. I guess it's not bad at all then for a freebie.

Yeah the dongle thing is still an issue. I guess Spitfish will do nicely for now though.

Originally Posted by sureno

go spit fish oh how i wish they went intel

Yup...Spitfish it is for now.

Cheers guys.

[sureno]

Enjoy sir M

[Chas@Source]

Originally Posted by Monarch

...Can't I just carefully adress any issues with EQ instead?...

You can't use EQ for this, because you need to be reducing the problem frequency sibilants only when they exceed normal speech level. If you home in on the frequency and reduce it with EQ, it'll reduce the volume of all the consonants (sibilant and non-sibilant) all the time, including when they weren't causing a problem - IOW, you'll have a very dull sounding vocal! A De-esser is exactly the correct tool: you set it up to reduce level only for the problem freq, and only when that freq exceeds a similar level to the general vocal!
Try listening to some before-and-after de-essed vocals, then try simply reducing HF by EQ, and you'll quickly see the difference...

[TrevCircleStudios]

Let me be controversial for a moment (I know this is going to surprise you all). Why try and fix somethig in the mix which is fixable on tracking? Perhaps you should ask yourself whether you are needlessly engaging in turd polishing? Always try and capture the sound you want going in and there'll be less need for polish later. There are lots of ways of reducing sibilance on the way in. Is it just that mic you are getting sibilance on with that singer (change the mic)? Is it that singer no matter what mic you use (see below)? Is your room a bit lively (treatment dear boy)? In all the circumstances, fix the heart of the problem if at all possible.

If changes in mic and or mic placement won't work on that singer try getting a pencil and an elastic band. Place the pencil vertically in the front and centre of the mic and use the elastic band to hold it in place. If you are still getting sibiliance then think about plugins etc. Not until then.

[Monarch]

Originally Posted by Chas@Source

You can't use EQ for this, because you need to be reducing the problem frequency sibilants only when they exceed normal speech level. If you home in on the frequency and reduce it with EQ, it'll reduce the volume of all the consonants (sibilant and non-sibilant) all the time, including when they weren't causing a problem - IOW, you'll have a very dull sounding vocal! A De-esser is exactly the correct tool: you set it up to reduce level only for the problem freq, and only when that freq exceeds a similar level to the general vocal!
Try listening to some before-and-after de-essed vocals, then try simply reducing HF by EQ, and you'll quickly see the difference...

Thanks for the additional info Chas

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Let me be controversial for a moment (I know this is going to surprise you all). Why try and fix somethig in the mix which is fixable on tracking?

Heh...totally agree it would always be my first option if necessary to fix things on the way in. But I wanted to see what options there are for minor corrections ITB.

Is your room a bit lively (treatment dear boy)? In all the circumstances, fix the heart of the problem if at all possible.

That is almost certainly the most likely problem. Something to sort out definitely.

Cheers Trev

[FrankGIK]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Let me be controversial for a moment (I know this is going to surprise you all). Why try and fix somethig in the mix which is fixable on tracking? Perhaps you should ask yourself whether you are needlessly engaging in turd polishing? Always try and capture the sound you want going in and there'll be less need for polish later. There are lots of ways of reducing sibilance on the way in. Is it just that mic you are getting sibilance on with that singer (change the mic)? Is it that singer no matter what mic you use (see below)? Is your room a bit lively (treatment dear boy)? In all the circumstances, fix the heart of the problem if at all possible.

If changes in mic and or mic placement won't work on that singer try getting a pencil and an elastic band. Place the pencil vertically in the front and centre of the mic and use the elastic band to hold it in place. If you are still getting sibiliance then think about plugins etc. Not until then.

...and for goodness sake take it easy with the vocal compression, or use a compressor that's very transparent and smooth for that job. The harder you slam a vocal, the more sibilance it's likely to uncover.

Frank