Sell me Reason 4!

[sureno]

well what do you guys think of reason v4, A LOT of people have been recently bringing this sequencer up into conversation even though this has been out for some time, so what's the deal guys?

[TrevCircleStudios]

dunno. only used it about twice. It just languishes on my hard drive doing nothing...

[terminal3]

I used Reason sporadically up to v3 then got bored with it and never bothered to upgrade to 4. I don't miss it, really.

[sureno]

i got to be in the same boat as you two at the moment on this one tbh

[terminal3]

Then why bother?

When I got Kontakt my interest in Reason completely waned, because I used to use it as a sound generator more than anything. Kontakt's core library more than covered what I was getting from Reason, so there was little "reason" to keep it in use.

[sureno]

i was more curious to find out if im missing something, thought id start this thread as a helping point but its not really changed my mind, thats all really

[Monarch]

Originally Posted by sureno

well what do you guys think of reason v4, A LOT of people have been recently bringing this sequencer up into conversation even though this has been out for some time, so what's the deal guys?

I think the key factor for using Reason (for you) would be just for a different workflow or if you are specifically working with other Reason users and want to exchange Reason Project files. Beyond that with the amazing soundsets you have...what will Reason bring to your table that you do not already have???

Pros...
Low CPU AFAICT
Cross Platform
Far less buggy than most software (probably due to the lack of VST support and longer development cycle)
Unique workflow
Good selection of additional sound sets
Very good 3rd Party support (verious training resources and courses)

Cons...
No VST support
No audio record in.
Very long Dev. cycle

Really a demo is the best way forward as those are my pros and cons for Reason.

[sureno]

cheers M, new workflow would be more of a con at the moment. but the rewire part was the most tempting. i think i got more than enough on my plate tbh, was thinking Reason would warrant an exeption but think not now

[Khazul]

I have it installed still primarily because some people I work with use it and so its convenient to be able to work in it directly at times to get audio out of it into Live or Cubase.

I used to use it quite a bit upto V3 - was on its beta program for V3 and V4 (V4 out of curiosity, V3 because I did actually use it alot then).

To me there is alot in Reason's intruments and effects, routing etc that I actually quite like, however being as its a closed system, and propellerheads have repeatedly strongly voiced their hugely anti-hardware, anti-VST/anto-AU etc, anti-audio in fact anti-anything-not-theirs stance then I see no hope for the situation ever getting any better.

What killed it for me really was the need to work outside during V3 to do things it just couldnt do, or work with audio, hardware synths etc and TBH I kind of got tired of its very samey sound character. In the end, using it was just more trouble than it was worth.

With V4 - yes - added a new qute decent looking synth and some other bits that I cant remember and have yet to use properly, but it was a case of way way too little and way way too late - V4 extra modules should have been done when V3 was done.

Should they ever one day randomly announce that they have made it possible to VST host their sound engine so that I could for example host a combinator as a VST within Live, then I'll use it again (as I said theres alot to like about its modules), but until then - I cant be bothered with the hassle of using it.

My girlfriend however does use it on her laptop, though she seems to prefer Live - like alot of us - she likes the idea of working by creating clips and playing the clips on the fly.

If my studio wasnt as flexible as it is, then there are probably two things I would go back to R4 for:

1. Very complex synth textures involving layered sounds with lots of processing
2. Beats - I happen to quite like Redrum and its samplers

Audio routing however in Live is very flexible, so I can generally do everything I want in Live, and failing that - its very quick for me to wire up my synths and fx in some strange complex chain via the patch bays to get anything wierd I want - also a v-synth and a fireworx between them can easily out-wierd reason

[Monarch]

Originally Posted by Khazul

With V4 - yes - added a new qute decent looking synth and some other bits that I cant remember and have yet to use properly, but it was a case of way way too little and way way too late - V4 extra modules should have been done when V3 was done.

This is the Props biggest issue. Not that the existing instruments are not very good or welcome additions but that the time it takes for them to get their products out of the door in such a fast moving industry, is maybe just too slow.

The flip side is great stability and reliability but I guess it would be great if they could keep the stability and reliability Reason has, but also get their products out of the door much quicker.

Should they ever one day randomly announce that they have made it possible to VST host their sound engine so that I could for example host a combinator as a VST within Live, then I'll use it again (as I said theres alot to like about its modules), but until then - I cant be bothered with the hassle of using it.

I think many have been begging for VST support but Props are not having any of it. I respect their position. It certainly gurantees their control of Reasons Dev. process totally and probably simplifies it as well.

It could well be that even if they add VST support the impact on market share for them with so many other options available now may not be much at all. Not nearly as much as it would have been 4 - 5 years ago.

The Props may have worked that out already and may not ever bother with VST support now.

[Khazul]

Originally Posted by Monarch

I think many have been begging for VST support but Props are not having any of it. I respect their position. It certainly gurantees their control of Reasons Dev. process totally and probably simplifies it as well.

When they went on their agressive anti-everything rampage is when I completly lost all respect for them. No other companies seems to like them either (apart from midi controller companies) so we will probabbly never see improvements to existing rewire implementations. Audio in over rewire will never happen because they have burned their bridges so much.

The ball is pretty much now in their court to make amends with their existing customers and with the rest of the music software industry.

[EdRyan]

I think their standpoint is odd, but admirable. It obvs works for them. They clearly have the skills to build the extra features you're all after, but...

The fact that 99% of their users have always treated (and therefore bought it) as a glorified VSTi or AU doesn't really give them much incentive to change the way they work. From a business perspective, by not marketing it as an outright daw, they are selling it as an instrument to work with (rather then against) products from Apple, Digi, Steinberg etc. For the cost of it, it makes a much better looking option then it does sequencer...

Lets not forget they invented Rewire as well, which every other sequencer uses to pass data between some other useful apps...

[Khazul]

Originally Posted by EdRyan

Lets not forget they invented Rewire as well, which every other sequencer uses to pass data between some other useful apps...

Invented is a bit strong for something that 90% native OS functionality...

[Monarch]

Originally Posted by Khazul

When they went on their agressive anti-everything rampage is when I completly lost all respect for them. No other companies seems to like them either (apart from midi controller companies) so we will probabbly never see improvements to existing rewire implementations. Audio in over rewire will never happen because they have burned their bridges so much.

It does look that way. I think many have given up on the idea of audio recording in Reason now.

The ball is pretty much now in their court to make amends with their existing customers and with the rest of the music software industry.

I think it is very strange to deny your customers one of their main feature requests (if not the top request for so many years) but include other lesser features instead...how many asked for a mastering suite for instance

Originally Posted by EdRyan

I think their standpoint is odd, but admirable. It obvs works for them. They clearly have the skills to build the extra features you're all after, but...

The fact that 99% of their users have always treated (and therefore bought it) as a glorified VSTi or AU doesn't really give them much incentive to change the way they work.

Yeah...ok Ed but I think many do hope that will change and more DAW like features or just one in particular will be added.

From a business perspective, by not marketing it as an outright daw, they are selling it as an instrument to work with (rather then against) products from Apple, Digi, Steinberg etc. For the cost of it, it makes a much better looking option then it does sequencer...

That is a very good point...they do describe Reason 4 as a "virtual rack" but I think they know that is not enough now so...Props do also market Reason as a complete studio...

"All in one Studio", "complete music system", "infinitely expandable all-in-one music production environment", "All in one wonder", it is a bit misleading, what complete studio on earth has no way to record audio? They know the " virtual rack" deal is too weak on its own now.

The Likes of Logic, Sonar, Cubase, PT and DP all have their own virtual racks (in a big way) now.

4 - 6 years ago when Cubase and Sonar in particluar had little or no bundled VSTi's Reason was an almost perfect fit. Especially with Ableton Live 2 and then 3 (which still had no midi editing features) a great fit those two. M Audio marketed both for quite some time. Until Avid came knocking on their door.

Lets not forget they invented Rewire as well, which every other sequencer uses to pass data between some other useful apps...

Wasn't the Rewire dev. with Steinberg as well though? I think I read somehwere years ago that the whole audio in issue is absent because of a deal struck on a cold night with Steinberg. That might explain why audio recording may never surface in Reason.

Having said all that as a Reason owner (Reason Adpated heh ) I remain a big fan of the Props and Reason as it is rock solid, uses lower CPU IMO than most hosts doing the same thing and is suprisingly very easy to use. You use it without thinking of the next patch, fix e.t.c it is totally solid. Period. IMO.

I wish other hosts were up to that standard. I think only Podium is on that level for reliability.

I think Reason is a unique app that along with Live offers a genuinely different way of working. The clever design and workflow is still unique to Reason and remains fun and easy to use. I think their market share will be there for some time to come but I doubt it is growing any where near as fast as it used to.

[sureno]

going to take the plunge and buy the upgrade for £70 odd to be able to take advantage of some of the refills and as a vsti with THOR rewired in Logic