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Old 2nd February 2009 , 06:45 PM
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Default Lucky, but need to learn Pro Tools!

Hi all,

I've just been given a rare/lucky opportunity to be able to work within a studio near me as a sound designer for independent work and commercial work (when i'm needed).

The studio is currently being built, alot of money is going into it and they've just sent me the list of what they'll be using hardware/software wise. All is looking awesome but the only thing worrying me is the fact they're installing a full Pro Tools HD2 system, C|24 control surface and 2x96i/o interfaces.
I say it worries me.. It doesn't really, i can't wait.. however, i've never used Pro Tools in my life. Glanced at it occasionaly from when i've been in studios but never used it fully, let alone a Digidesign control desk.

Long story short, is it a big difference between software? I currently use Logic Pro as my software choice. I won't be able to use this until it's been finished and i'm in there getting paid so i'd rather not spend the first week or two understanding what each button does etc. I realise Pro Tools is much better than Logic for recording (especially with the outboard software), but it's the actual software i'm looking at more.

Probably a daft question and i'm sure to get a bit of stick from it but hopefully someone can give me some pointers to some decent websites/books i can purchase to have a decent read.

Cheers folks,
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 06:52 PM
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logic is fairly different imo, PT needs a bit more of a learning and researching where as with logic i found i could work most things out myself. This however could be different for you.

if you are doing sound design, will you essentially need to know the ins and outs of PT?

so if you do, which PT is it as 8 is different to 7 graphically but fundamentals appear the same as HD. im not sure if there are any tutorial books on PT8 but Pro Tools 101 is great for beginners.

may be worth you buying an M-box Micro or Mini as you get PT le free and it's pretty much the same, if you buy now you will get 7.4 and a free update to 8, if the studio is using 7.x then stay with 7.x and if 8 well it comes free via download if needed.

Vimeo have some good vids, Brief intro to 8
check out youtube and you'll learn loads


Have a browse here DUC see what people are moaning about see how it is resolved, you may encounter a problem and remember the solution because you read it there, it all helps however as Trev says YMMV.

May be the best thing to do is tell us what exactly will you be doing, or should i say what will "sound designing" actually involve?
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:11 PM
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Congrats!

First: I'm a Pro Tools guy and I find Logic Pro both baffling and ridiculous at times. I'm slowly learning it, but most things just don't line up.

Don't let that scare you: first of all, I have no idea, it might be easier the other way around.

Pro Tools operates more like a straightforward tape machine than Logic Pro, with good editing capabilities. The control surfaces aren't the greatest for editing, you'll need some mouse ability and you'll also want to know the keystrokes.

sureno's suggestion of buying an Mbox of some sort is a good one. At the very least I'd get a Mini, because then you can work out how to record as well in case you ever need to do VO or anything like that. The fundamentals of the software are the same. You will still need to learn TDM/RTAS plug-in DSP management, how the ADC works, and I/O setup for HD (especially if there's outboard involved but outboard in post nowadays is getting very rare mainly due to time constraints), those things aren't really "teachable" unless you're at work on an HD rig (but they're not difficult). Using Digitranslator will be a necessary skill as well: not difficult again, but not "practiceable" on LE unless you spend a few hundred more quid. Actually, lots of post functions are locked with LE until you get the DV Toolkit 2, which costs a lot unfortunately... so things like spotting to timecode and the sorts of things you're going to have to do all the time will require a bit of an investment on your part at home... d'oh.

You should also find out what sort of 3rd party plug-ins they may be using day in and day out and get sharp with them too. If you can't afford to buy them yourself then at least get the demos and burn all your time on them working out the interfaces and figuring out how they work (and can work for you.) I know within London the Focusrite d2/d3 bundle is often the weapon of choice, followed closely by the Sonnox bundle (EQ/dynamics anyway) when it comes to dialogue editing.

I don't know how long it will be until they're open but I think if they're expecting you to hit the ground running then you might seriously consider taking a course. Trust me when I say that if you sit down and are hen-pecking at the console and referring to the online help every six minutes then they are not going to call you back in. If you're dealing in broadcast stuff you will be up against it more often than you thought possible and you will need to hit silly deadlines all the time.

Anyway, that's some starter advice, hope it's of some use...!
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:11 PM
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Ha, yeah - Sound Design is quite vague. Basically the studio is there for me to use for my own projects i find independently (I do sound design for Film & TV. Ie, Foley, ADR and general spot effects). I'll also be using it to record small bands, and if need be use it for larger ensembles/choirs (But there'll obviously be more than one engineer for that!).

To be honest, i have no idea what version it is they'll be using - With it all being purchased in the next week or two, i'm assuming it'll be the newest version (8?). I guess i'm being a little naive with comparing the two as being the same just because they're both linear based audio programmes..

I might take your advice though and invest in a little Mbox to get me practicing. I'm not wanting to learn it to the standard of being able to go in there on day 1 knowing 100% of it of course, would just be nice to be able to know how to work/test out all the hardware.

Thanks for the advice,!
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:14 PM
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Hmmm, another concern I would have then with whatever they're setting up is that studios setup for post-production and studios setup for music are very different animals. Will they be setup to do tape laybacks and that sort of thing?
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal3 View Post
Congrats!

First: I'm a Pro Tools guy and I find Logic Pro both baffling and ridiculous at times. I'm slowly learning it, but most things just don't line up.
Cheers for the tips T3.

I've not gone in there for an interview stating i'm a wizz kid on PT, i've been upfront and honest saying i've worked mainly on Logic (Pyramix in the last studio i was in). It's certainly not going to be a studio where they'll have many big clients in expecting their work to be complete within a matter of days ready for broadcast, it's alot small than that.

The other good news is that i will be able to sit in there for as long as i want learning the hardware as i'll be able to get a set of keys, so i think the first couple of nights will be pretty tiring

Plug-ins are a big one too with them not purchasing any by the looks of the order sheet, however - i'm sure i can point out a few must have plug ins they can order in.

Do you think changing the keybindings to LP8's in Pro Tools will help me much or will that just slow me down in the long run? Or am i thinking too much about all this now?
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:24 PM
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Hmmm, another concern I would have then with whatever they're setting up is that studios setup for post-production and studios setup for music are very different animals. Will they be setup to do tape laybacks and that sort of thing?
Definitely not - the studio will be more recording based. Post-production will be done within the studio but if for whatever reason we needed some tracks mastering, i'd more than likely get it sent to a professional post studio.
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:27 PM
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i think T3 will have to advice you further mate, im more a music dude then film etc
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifstorey View Post
Cheers for the tips T3.

I've not gone in there for an interview stating i'm a wizz kid on PT, i've been upfront and honest saying i've worked mainly on Logic (Pyramix in the last studio i was in). It's certainly not going to be a studio where they'll have many big clients in expecting their work to be complete within a matter of days ready for broadcast, it's alot small than that.

The other good news is that i will be able to sit in there for as long as i want learning the hardware as i'll be able to get a set of keys, so i think the first couple of nights will be pretty tiring

Plug-ins are a big one too with them not purchasing any by the looks of the order sheet, however - i'm sure i can point out a few must have plug ins they can order in.

Do you think changing the keybindings to LP8's in Pro Tools will help me much or will that just slow me down in the long run? Or am i thinking too much about all this now?
I think your Pyramix skills will probably help you more than your Logic skills actually so that's a plus.

I'm not even sure you can change the keys in Pro Tools - I know you can in Logic but with Digidesign it's usually "their way or the highway." A smarted thing might be to change Logic Pro's to Pro Tools which will force you into that way of thinking when you're messing around in there.

If their systems are Mac based you could also gently suggest installing Logic Pro - it's so cheap I can't imagine why it would be bad, then if you need to accomplish something that's messing with you in PT you can always do it. Plus, Logic Pro supports TDM cards for some things so you might get some "stability" out of it (but who knows, really, I've never used Logic with TDM cards).

Having access to the rig is not a bad thing either, you can learn all that stuff I mentioned that's impossible to do at home.

Anyway, FWIW here's a short list of absolute must-have post production plug-ins - of course you know better what you might want for sound design-related, these ones are just for "utility" purposes (and of course this is only my opinion as well, if it helps ):

PPMulator
Massey L2007
RNDigital Uniquel-izer
ProAudioDSP's DSM
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:33 PM
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i think T3 will have to advice you further mate, im more a music dude then film etc
I'll come to you for some advice when i'm pulling my hair out over my tunes in Logic then
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:34 PM
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I'll come to you for some advice when i'm pulling my hair out over my tunes in Logic then
will always try to help
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:41 PM
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I think your Pyramix skills will probably help you more than your Logic skills actually so that's a plus.

I'm not even sure you can change the keys in Pro Tools - I know you can in Logic but with Digidesign it's usually "their way or the highway." A smarted thing might be to change Logic Pro's to Pro Tools which will force you into that way of thinking when you're messing around in there.

If their systems are Mac based you could also gently suggest installing Logic Pro - it's so cheap I can't imagine why it would be bad, then if you need to accomplish something that's messing with you in PT you can always do it. Plus, Logic Pro supports TDM cards for some things so you might get some "stability" out of it (but who knows, really, I've never used Logic with TDM cards).

Having access to the rig is not a bad thing either, you can learn all that stuff I mentioned that's impossible to do at home.

Anyway, FWIW here's a short list of absolute must-have post production plug-ins - of course you know better what you might want for sound design-related, these ones are just for "utility" purposes (and of course this is only my opinion as well, if it helps ):

PPMulator
Massey L2007
RNDigital Uniquel-izer
ProAudioDSP's DSM
Thankfully they've ordered Logic so if it ever feels like i'm going to have a panic attack i'll just open it up and feel calmed with the relaxing chrome interface

I think i'm going to change the keybindings in Logic to PTs (seens as they're pretentious b@*&^$ús and won't allow it t'other way!). That's a good idea, although i'm sure i'll be regretting it for the next few hours i spend in Logic.

I'll check out some plug ins and come back to you, i'm sure i'll have some more advice to ask about them

Thanks again mate, appreciate the help!
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifstorey View Post
Thankfully they've ordered Logic so if it ever feels like i'm going to have a panic attack i'll just open it up and feel calmed with the relaxing chrome interface

I think i'm going to change the keybindings in Logic to PTs (seens as they're pretentious b@*&^$ús and won't allow it t'other way!). That's a good idea, although i'm sure i'll be regretting it for the next few hours i spend in Logic.

I'll check out some plug ins and come back to you, i'm sure i'll have some more advice to ask about them

Thanks again mate, appreciate the help!
No problem. Shoot me a PM if I can help with anything more directly.

You in London? I'm looking for post clients right now, so in one of those situations where you might need outside help with the dub or anything, drop me a line...
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 07:57 PM
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No problem. Shoot me a PM if I can help with anything more directly.

You in London? I'm looking for post clients right now, so in one of those situations where you might need outside help with the dub or anything, drop me a line...
I'm up North i'm afraid, but the joy of the internet means that it doesn't necessarily matter.

I'll certainly bear that in mind, i'm sure i'll have plenty more questions yet.. The journey has only just begun...
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Old 2nd February 2009 , 08:35 PM
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Quote:
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I'm not even sure you can change the keys in Pro Tools - I know you can in Logic but with Digidesign it's usually "their way or the highway." A smarted thing might be to change Logic Pro's to Pro Tools which will force you into that way of thinking when you're messing around in there.
Yes you can. Look here:

http://forums.dv247.com/tips-n-trick...k-key-mac.html
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