Which Preamp?

[TrevCircleStudios]

Chandler TG2 Stereo EMI / Abbey Road Preamp at DV247.COM

All hail Lord Wade!

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Chandler TG2 Stereo EMI / Abbey Road Preamp at DV247.COM

All hail Lord Wade!

May the Goeke be with you!

[mutilatedlip]

Damn, I wish I could justify forking out that kind of cash!

What would people recommend for a decent vocal preamp to add to a Brauner Phantom for making warm and lovely alt.rock vocals for commercial, poppy-style tracks?

Naturally, a dead space to record the vocals in would be a start, but I'll cross that bridge...

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by mutilatedlip

Damn, I wish I could justify forking out that kind of cash!

What would people recommend for a decent vocal preamp to add to a Brauner Phantom for making warm and lovely alt.rock vocals for commercial, poppy-style tracks?

Naturally, a dead space to record the vocals in would be a start, but I'll cross that bridge...

... budget? You're talking about an £800 mic. It's got a tube already, right? In that case I'd stick with solid-state preamps. If you can't afford the TG2 (that would be awesome, though), get the DAV BG-1! It's transparent, but detailed and slightly "larger-than-life." The 'texture' is going to come from the valve in the mic, and of course the performance.

Make sure you use a classy compressor to get those up-front alt.rock vox. If you're gonna cheap out on that then cheap out on an RNC or RNLA (the RNLA is more 'colourful...') If you've got an extra £1k lying around get a Distressor.

[mutilatedlip]

Originally Posted by terminal3

... budget? You're talking about an £800 mic. It's got a tube already, right? In that case I'd stick with solid-state preamps. If you can't afford the TG2 (that would be awesome, though), get the DAV BG-1! It's transparent, but detailed and slightly "larger-than-life." The 'texture' is going to come from the valve in the mic, and of course the performance.

Make sure you use a classy compressor to get those up-front alt.rock vox. If you're gonna cheap out on that then cheap out on an RNC or RNLA (the RNLA is more 'colourful...') If you've got an extra £1k lying around get a Distressor.

Hmmm. Budget depends.

The Brauner isn't valve - it's solid. I have a MXL V69 with a valve (which if anyone has any advice on which NOS valve to update it with I'd be grateful).

Both nice mics. But warmth is really what I'm after. Naturally, I'll try and try a few possibilities out prior to committing.

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by mutilatedlip

Hmmm. Budget depends.

The Brauner isn't valve - it's solid. I have a MXL V69 with a valve (which if anyone has any advice on which NOS valve to update it with I'd be grateful).

Both nice mics. But warmth is really what I'm after. Naturally, I'll try and try a few possibilities out prior to committing.

Ah, cool, sorry, thought the Brauner had one of them vacuum tubes in it that the old timers talk about. I am mistaken, I was confusing it in my head with the Valvet (duh).

In that case, how about Universal Audio? For not too much money, the Solo 610's got tonnes of warmth. You could upgrade to the LA610 if you want the channelstrip variant with the limiter, although IMHO that limiter isn't good on everything...

Universal Audio Solo/610 Classic Vacuum Tube Mic P at DV247.COM

LA-610 (LA610) at DV247.COM

Oh well, just ideas. If my wallet was bottomless I'd also look longingly at this one: Chandler LTD1 Expanded EQ / Pre-Amp at DV247.COM

[TrevCircleStudios]

If you are on a budget and want colour for alt/rock vox I'd go RNP. I wouldnt compress on the way in unless you have an awesome compressor and you are only doing it for the colour (I have an 1176 of paricularly good pedigree/discography which excels on this kind of thing but when a song doesnt call for this I don't use one for tracking at all)

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by terminal3

If my wallet was bottomless I'd also look longingly at this one: Chandler LTD1 Expanded EQ / Pre-Amp at DV247.COM

The Chandler LTD1 Expanded EQ / Pre-Amp looks a babe but she weighs in at €2,266.74 plus delivery charges!!!

It seems that in this business a bottomless wallet is a must...that or a rich wife who likes buying her fella new toys!!!

[mutilatedlip]

Thanks for all the advice. I think the best thing for me to do would be to A/B a few of these - I must admit I'm pretty useless at noticing the subtleties of preamps/compressors etc.

I'd just like to get the best possible sound; the most professional sound for the buck, really.

I like the look of the 610 Solo - very well priced for what it is. Definitely something I'd like to look at.

Trev - thanks for the advice. It's a way off yet, but we may look to track at a pro-facility at some stage. The rest of my band are in Bristol, so I'm sure they'd love a jolly up to track some bits and bobs here.

Naturally, when I say 'I like the look of...' I'm implying the sound

[sphelan]

Ok, this is what I have gleamed from the article in FM regarding preamps. I have written it as points and have included even the most basic of info as it helps me get my head around it and also I think it might be useful to other newbies like me! I have gone further that the article and also added links to the products if people want to get a full perspective of the features.

Intro:
• A preamp is needed between the mic and the recording system
• It boosts the low signals from a mic
• The signal is digitalised and then its possible to process the signal digitally
• Many engineers prefer to process signals with analogue equipment before sending then to the A/D of the recorder
• Analogue equipment can be preferred due to the coloration that can be added to the signal
• The most basic preamps only amplify the mic signal
• Others include a EQ, compression, and sometimes de-essing and limiting
• If you produce pop, you would want to colour the signals
• If you produce jazz or other styles, you would want a transparent sound
• If you do both, you need a versatile preamp or several
• Gain is one of the most important features of a preamp
• Transformers colour the sound
• Solid state circuits are more transparent
• Class A minimize distortion
• Transistor circuits offer greater volume and dynamic margen

Classic Preamps: This is a brief list of features. More information would be found on looking up each model.
• API A2D: 2 channel, 1800 euros, contains the classic API312 preamps, simultaneous analogue and digital recording possible
API A2D Dual 312 Mic Preamps with Digital Output

• SSL XLogic SuperAnalogue Channel: 2500 euros, identical processors as XL 9000 K Series desk, same technology as SSL AWS900, very transparent, “G EQ” ideal for instruments and voices, “E EQ” ideal for drums and percussion
Solid State Logic | Music


• Neve 1073 DPA: pair of Class A Neve 1073s, 2400 euros, nothing better for recording voices, guitar and acoustic instruments, applicable to any musical style
AMS Neve - Products - New Classic - 1073DPA


• Drawmer and Mercenary Audio 1969 Mercenary Edition: developed as a special version of classic Drawmer 1960 (used by Clapton, Madonna, Stevie Wonder etc), flexible 2 channel unit with valve quality.
Mercenary Audio - Drawmer 1969 Mercenary Edition Dual Mic Pre/Compressor


Luxury models: If you only want the best
• George Massenburg Labs GML 2020: 1 channel with 4 band EQ and compressor, sophisticated, requires time to get the best of it, spectacular preamp, impeccable EQ, 3000 euros at least
GML2020 Integrated Input Channel

• Millennia STT-1: single channel, two independent circuits – solid state and transistors, clarity comparable with GML 2020 but more flexible
Millennia STT-1


• Manley VoxBox: great on bass as well as vocals.
Manley_VOXBOX®


Affordable range:
• Focusrite Platinum TwinTrak Pro: 2 channel, 400 euros, Class A, transistors, EQ, compression, sidechain, 2 DI, convertor D/A, lot of characteristics at a low price
Focusrite Audio Engineering | UK Site | Products | Platinum | TwinTrak Pro

• TL Audio Ivory 5060: 500 euros approx, 2 channels, DI, compressor, not the quality nor flexibility of VP-1 Mono Tube Processor (2500 euros) or the PA-1 but good as a starter.

TL Audio 5050 : Mono Tube Preamp & Compressor
TL Audio VP-1 : Mono Tube Processor
TL Audio PA-1 : 2-Channel Pentode Tube Preamp


Conclusion: What’s the best?
• You pay for quality (obviously!!)
• It’s worth holding out and buying the best quality you can afford.

This has been a useful exercise for me and I hope it will server others too.

Sorry for the delay Dave. I am sure you will agree that this, like many such articles in these magazines, is rather skimpy. I wouldn’t buy the mag just for this article!

[TrevCircleStudios]

Great summary man!

One small thing worth clarifying...

You said:

Affordable range:
• Focusrite Platinum TwinTrak Pro: 2 channel, 400 euros, Class A, transistors, EQ, compression, sidechain, 2 DI, convertor D/A, lot of characteristics at a low price
Focusrite Audio Engineering | UK Site | Products | Platinum | TwinTrak Pro

• TL Audio Ivory 5060: 500 euros approx, 2 channels, DI, compressor, not the quality nor flexibility of VP-1 Mono Tube Processor (2500 euros) or the PA-1 but good as a starter.

TL Audio 5050 : Mono Tube Preamp & Compressor
TL Audio VP-1 : Mono Tube Processor
TL Audio PA-1 : 2-Channel Pentode Tube Preamp

Conclusion: What’s the best?
• You pay for quality (obviously!!)
• It’s worth holding out and buying the best quality you can afford.

I absolutely agree with your conclusion but there are a handful of peamps which are budget in cost terms but which can provide excellent results, and indeed, IMO are a cut above the 'affordable range' you mention. Why I hear you say...? I'll explain in a fresh thread and link it here: Why buy an expensive preamp
The Giant Killers

the DAV BG1 (not stocked)
FMR RNP: http://www.dv247.com/invt/12497/
Grace 101 (not stocked)
Trye Systems P-Solo (not stocked)

And if your budget can't stretch to them, the king of the budget preamps as far as I'm concenred (DIY kits apart) is... (drum roll)...the Rane MS1B (not stocked).

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Great summary man!

One small thing worth clarifying...

You said:



I absolutely agree with your conclusion but there are a handful of peamps which are budget in cost terms but which can provide excellent results, and indeed, IMO are a cut above the 'affordable range' you mention. Why I hear you say...? I'll explain in a fresh thread and link it here: Why buy an expensive preamp
The Giant Killers

the DAV BG1 (not stocked)
FMR RNP: FMR Really Nice Preamp Two Channel Mic Pre-Amp at DV247.COM
Grace 101 (not stocked)
Trye Systems P-Solo (not stocked)

And if your budget can't stretch to them, the king of the budget preamps as far as I'm concenred (DIY kits apart) is... (drum roll)...the Rane MS1B (not stocked).

Not my conclusion Trev...that's what the article said. What I've given is a summary of what I think is important in the article. The only iniciative I have shown is adding the hyperlinks so as to help me quickly access further info.

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Great summary man!

the DAV BG1 (not stocked)
FMR RNP: FMR Really Nice Preamp Two Channel Mic Pre-Amp at DV247.COM
Grace 101 (not stocked)
Trye Systems P-Solo (not stocked)

And if your budget can't stretch to them, the king of the budget preamps as far as I'm concenred (DIY kits apart) is... (drum roll)...the Rane MS1B (not stocked).

Yeah!! DV what's happening here. Most of the preamps the guys have recommened to me are not stocked by DV. Modz1, did you say in my thread Get a life? that you are keeping an eye on the forum. Well, don't take it personally, but if the guys are recommending I buy one of their favourite preamps, it looks bad if I have to go an buy it elsewhere!!! Don't you think?

Trev, I hyperlinked to the product pages as I couldn't find them on DV...because...THEY ARE NOT STOCKED!!!!!

[mutilatedlip]

This is great info on the preamps for the luddites amongst us (me, basically!).

However, could anyone offer any advice on the recording environment?

Having all this great equipment is brilliant, but if you're recording in an acoustically imperfect room, what practical advice would you suggest to help this?

It's a difficult one, really, as I'm about to record my band (within the next 6 months or so) and I'd love to get as close as possible to a commercial recording with a touch of character, but at the same time, I'd like to get as close to nailing a decent recording on the way in, as I'm not a great fan of colouring/compressing/eq'ing a signal on the way in. I'd rather do that post-recording to give us as much flexibility as usual.

Naturally, I'm not unrealistic and expecting instant answers -just throwing it out for discussion.

[modz1]

Originally Posted by sphelan

Yeah!! DV what's happening here. Most of the preamps the guys have recommened to me are not stocked by DV. Modz1, did you say in my thread Get a life? that you are keeping an eye on the forum. Well, don't take it personally, but if the guys are recommending I buy one of their favourite preamps, it looks bad if I have to go an buy it elsewhere!!! Don't you think?

Trev, I hyperlinked to the product pages as I couldn't find them on DV...because...THEY ARE NOT STOCKED!!!!!

sphelan, not taken personally I assure you.. This thread has been passed to DV's Marketing Exec. Manager and the buying department.. I'm sure you'll hear back very soon.. And, yes, the eye is firmly on and open..