DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers Lowest Price Guaranteed, Free Delivery, Free 3 Year Warranty
Go Back   DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers > Music Equipment Discussion > Pro Audio
Forgot Password? Join Us!
Home Register Groups FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Go to DV247.com
New to Forums or just joined? Why not start your journey here?

Pro Audio Mixers, mics, outboard, monitors, headphones

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30th July 2008 , 11:55 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Default Microphone preamp combination

Is this the minefield it appears to be? I am looking for combination I can take with me to any session for vocals. Versatility is important, due to the potential variety of voices I may come across (not having the money for many different mics and preamps). When warmth is an issue, is it better to come from the preamp, or the microphone? I am looking at mid-priced to high-end products. Oh, also what are some of the known mic/preamp combinations that do the business. Any help would be much appreciated. Ta!
yonkolai is offline Offline
Last edited by yonkolai; 30th July 2008 at 12:00 PM. . <
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 30th July 2008 , 12:04 PM
Sound Guru
 
whitecat's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Surrey / London
Posts: 2,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yonkolai View Post
Is this the minefield it appears to be? I am looking for combination I can take with me to any session for vocals. Versatility is important, due to the potential variety of voices I may come across (not having the money for many different mics and preamps). When warmth is an issue, is it better to come from the preamp, or the microphone? I am looking at mid-priced to high-end products. Ta!
As far as the signal chain goes, both are important, I will argue that the mic is more important than the pre however.

For warmth, well, this is a minefield too - I'd say get the warmth from the mic. You could try a tube pre but I find they add too much noise to voice to be as useful as a quality solid state design. That's just one opinion, of course, and if it were electric guitars or bass or other things you were recording my song would change.

You can also dial-in the warmth in post, either through outboard eq/compression or even gentle & clever use of high-quality plug-ins.

If money is no object, you should probably have your eye on a Neumann U87, and on the pre side, possible something by Neve or Rupert Neve Designs.

If you want mid-range compromises, though, well, I'm an expert on those, because I have neither of the above recommended mics.

I think if I wanted to do a single-channel "budget" compromise I'd look at an AKG 414 and either a Neve Portico pre (or pre+EQ, if you want that channelstrip flexibility), or maybe a Great River pre, or others... SSL, DAV Electronics, Sytek, Universal Audio and many others all make mic amps which are damn good for the money.

And although I haven't heard it yet, the Focusrite ISA One might indeed be a great portable solution, too - the Focusrite mic amps are noted actually not for their warmth, but for their honesty - they're a bit 'bland' compared to other pres but this is not to their detriment at all, it means you can shape the sound with the mic and with the channel processing instead. So if nothing else, they're 'accurate.'

The U87 and the 414 are probably the two most versatile LDC mics on the market, they both work on an incredible variety of sources and provide quality results.
whitecat is offline Offline
Last edited by whitecat; 30th July 2008 at 12:12 PM. . <
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008 , 01:54 PM
Keeper o' the Keys!
 
Dave Boulden's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,470
Default

Maybe it's lower budget than you are aiming for, but I get excellent results from my Focusrite VoiceMaster Platinum Pro:

Focusrite Voicemaster Pro + ADC Board at DV247.COM

I have the ADC card option for digital hookup to my DM3200 and then straight into the DAW. It also takes Wordclock (I use it to sync it from the WC gen in my DM3200 alongside a Focusrite OcroPre, and Behringer Bass V-Amp and ADA8000 ADAT preamps).

It has a really good selection of intuitive controls covering dynamics, EQ, harmonics, tube warmth and a de-esser. It is definitely aimed squarely at recording vocals, though I also get very good results using it to DI bass and guitar. I have found that since getting it, the vocal takes just seem to "sit" in the mix much more natrurally and with less effort at the mixing stage.

______________________________
The Dining Room Studio
http://www.drstudio.co.uk/
Dave Boulden is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008 , 02:06 PM
Sound Guru
 
whitecat's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Surrey / London
Posts: 2,740
Default

To be fair Dave, that's a good idea for a project studio but if he's looking at mid-to-high end the Platinum stuff just doesn't cut it. The preamps have a reasonable overall (inoffensive!) sound but they're a bit brittle and have almost no headroom. With the exception of maybe the Compounder, you'll see very little if any Platinum stuff gracing the racks of any high-end studio. And the big problem is, the better the mic, the more audible the deficiencies in the preamp. I hate to sound elitist (moreso! ) but the moment he walked into a pro studio with a Platinum box under his arm he'd lose a lot of cred with the engineers there, justifiably or not.

I'm not knocking it for it's price, of course, you can do far worse at the low end of the market, it's just for the OP's application I would strongly disagree with that as a possibility. YMMV of course.

(and if anyone's keeping score, the "midrange" with Focusrite is the ISA stuff, the "high-end" is the Red stuff, from a market segment perspective, but the ISA stuff can compete with the best!!)
whitecat is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008 , 02:24 PM
Keeper o' the Keys!
 
Dave Boulden's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal3 View Post
To be fair Dave, that's a good idea for a project studio but if he's looking at mid-to-high end the Platinum stuff just doesn't cut it.
No worries, I tend to agree with you, hence the "lower budget" caveat. My experince is using it in conjuction with Rode NT2a and Golden Age R1ActiveMkII microphones.. both of which, whilst being great mics, are firmly in the project studio price range... I can't quite stretch to a U87 just yet

Also, Yonkolai is a little bit vague about his reference point for what is "mid" and "high-end" for his application.

______________________________
The Dining Room Studio
http://www.drstudio.co.uk/
Dave Boulden is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008 , 02:26 PM
Sound Guru
 
whitecat's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Surrey / London
Posts: 2,740
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Boulden View Post
Also, Yonkolai is a little bit vague about his reference point for what is "mid" and "high-end" for his application.
Indeed true - I remember when I started with this stuff - people snickered at what (at the time) I thought was "high-end."

Experience is the best teacher, though, and eventually you realise that in fact you can spend almost -any- amount of money on gear and still need more.
whitecat is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2008 , 02:31 PM
Keeper o' the Keys!
 
Dave Boulden's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,470
Default

Oh... it never takes more than a few moments of drooling over spec sheets to "justify" the next purchase
______________________________
The Dining Room Studio
http://www.drstudio.co.uk/
Dave Boulden is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 4th August 2008 , 02:30 PM
DV Staff
 
Mansa's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Default

For the pre check out the Universal Audio Twin-finity - Universal Audio 710 Twin-Finity Mic/Line Preamp & at DV247.COM

Allows you to blend between solid state and tube! Nice!

Or check out the Summit Audio 2BA-221 - Summit Audio 2BA-221 Variable Impedence Microphone at DV247.COM

It's got two seperate outs - one for the solid state path and one for the tube'd. Also nice!

Mansa is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 5th August 2008 , 02:12 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Default

Thanks Terminal 3, Dave and Mansa. The Neumann U87 is one I have been interested in. It must have classic status for good reason. The versatility aspect of it together with the quality sways me. However, I hear good things about it's little sister the Neumann TLM103. I know it hasn't got the polar patterns of the AKG 414, but a Neumann at that price. Can it sonically compare to the U87?

Preamp wise I am still unsure. It seems the Focusrite Liquid can be an ultimate solution. Can convolution replace the real thing? Universal Audio, Neve, SSL, Focusrite, etc., where does it end? I guess auditioning is the way forward. Maybe buy the mic (as my choice seems easier and it is first in the signal chain) then see what preamp sonically fits.

Yes I intend to be taken seriously. Not that I want to rely on the wow factor of my gear, but that I know I can use that gear to ultimately wow with its results. I do see what's in a name has a certain gravity to it. I just hope this doesn't blinker me to neglecting other candidates I may consider.

To answer the question of mid and high priced gear. 1500 up to 2500 combined. So I am not talking statospheric priced products. So the high prices I am talking about would be more accurately described as mid/high prices.
yonkolai is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 5th August 2008 , 02:21 PM
Sound Guru
 
whitecat's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Surrey / London
Posts: 2,740
Default

The TLM103 isn't worth consideration IMO. Go big or go home - the U87 works on everything, every time!

Ahhh, the Liquid Channel. Suggest you do a few more general internet searches, it has its share of fans, but also its share of detractors. And I think it would be very important to hear one in person. Certainly it will be a bit of a swiss-army-knife when it comes to the preamp department, but whether said knife is sharp enough for you remains to be seen.

Here's a wacky suggestion. What about an SSL Mynx?

You buy the chassis:

SSL Mynx Mini Desktop Box at DV247.COM

And then you can mix n' match modules:

Search for ssl xrack at DV247.COM

This is similar to the 500-series ("Lunchbox") arrangement but specific to SSL. Maybe a Lunchbox isn't out of the question either, it's nicely portable and you can fill it with API goodies if you want some seriou colour.

I'm a fan of getting as clean a front-end signal as possible and then colouring in the mix, so that's why the SSL solution came to mind first. I'd get this for a pre: SSL XLogic XRack Mic Amp Module / Mic Pre at DV247.COM and then you can get either EQ, dynamics or another pre channel to fill the other slot. Or buy a bunch and use 'em as needed.

Hope all that rambling helps somewhat!
whitecat is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 6th August 2008 , 08:08 AM
DV Staff
 
gzweb's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: RM7 7PJ
Posts: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansa View Post
For the pre check out the Universal Audio Twin-finity - Universal Audio 710 Twin-Finity Mic/Line Preamp & at DV247.COM

Allows you to blend between solid state and tube! Nice!

Or check out the Summit Audio 2BA-221 - Summit Audio 2BA-221 Variable Impedence Microphone at DV247.COM

It's got two seperate outs - one for the solid state path and one for the tube'd. Also nice!

That Summit Audio thingy is quite interesting, with the two outs! (Have replaced the web image with a better one just now...)
gzweb is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Microphone for live sound in a church Tangerine Trees Music PA Systems & Live sound 5 11th August 2008 10:15 PM
Best microphone for sampling noises aldistorted Pro Audio 6 31st July 2008 01:39 PM
Best affordable microphone for capture and record acoustic instruments Country Joe Pro Audio 18 28th July 2008 04:02 PM
Melodeon microphone stuartb Pro Audio 0 26th July 2008 10:20 PM
M-Audio Microphone Pad with Phase Inverter DrumKing New Product Suggestions 0 18th July 2008 09:20 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0
1999-2017 DV247 Ltd. All rights reserved.