Think I want to add a sub to my setup

[Maccy]

Yup that's right! I want to beef up the bass, whilst my Rokit 6's are pretty good I need more lower end. This is mainly for music listening but obviously will help with production stuff!

I've looked at the KRK sub to go with my speakers and it's quite pricey at £300 from our friendly shop - http://www.dv247.com/invt/61665/

However, should I consider anything else? £300 seems a lot for a sub and ideally I'd like to pay less but then having the matching kit is all the rave

[Dave Boulden]

Originally Posted by Maccy

This is mainly for music listening but obviously will help with production stuff!

Don't let Trev hear you say that!

I'd say that if you are going to add a sub, then get the best possible match... and that should be the one the manufacturer specifically make to match the speakers.

[Maccy]

I probably worded that very badly

[TrevCircleStudios]

Man have I become the forum ogre or something...?

Right, back into character then... However much you are budgeting for a sub you need to budget twice as much for room treatment. That is the scale of the problem you are creating. 300 on a sub = 600 on room treatment. Alternatively, if you want to be able to hear the (more than adequate) bass your krk's likely produce, just spend your 300 with frank and buy some bass traps. But then, they don't have buttons and lights do they...

[sphelan]

If it's of any use...I recently plugged out my KRK RP10 sub from my system...it's obvious from that that I don't have any bass traps!

[Maccy]

I honestly hadn't even thought about room treatment. Any links for me to read would be appreciated

Thanks

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by Maccy

I honestly hadn't even thought about room treatment. Any links for me to read would be appreciated

Thanks

Now that's one HUGE question...search the forums here as it has been discussed on several ocassions! After that, ask Trev, Frank and others.

[ecc83]

ALL that I have read in the last 3yrs re subs says putting them into an untreated room is the height of folly.

Another line of thought is that having TWO smaller subs as close to the primaries as possible is much better than one big un.

Reasons?
1) They do not "pull" the image nearly so much in the crossover point*.

2) The crossover slope can be less steep and thus contribute less colouration.

3) They pump LF into 2 points in the room not one and spread the mode exitation better.

*Yeah, we all know we cannot localize sound below 100,80,60 di da Hz. Bollox. This may have been true of vinyl where large LF difference signals had to be tamed, now we can record wtf we like!

And one good sub will not be cheap, two smaller ones will not be 2x the price.

Dave.

[TrevCircleStudios]

Start Page...

Look under "Set Up" > "room treatment"

(also bear in mind that "room treatment" does not equal "foam"

[TrevCircleStudios]

And then look here:

http://forums.dv247.com/recording-mi...-bradford.html

[Maccy]

Thanks Trev, I'll make a trip to Wickes when I get a spare afternoon!

[FrankGIK]

Originally Posted by Maccy

Yup that's right! I want to beef up the bass, whilst my Rokit 6's are pretty good I need more lower end. This is mainly for music listening but obviously will help with production stuff!

I've looked at the KRK sub to go with my speakers and it's quite pricey at £300 from our friendly shop - http://www.dv247.com/invt/61665/

However, should I consider anything else? £300 seems a lot for a sub and ideally I'd like to pay less but then having the matching kit is all the rave

The really ironic part of this is that with every intention of "beefing up the bass", you'll actually end up making it even worse.

What will happen is this: at this point you're probably experiencing a lack of bass due to a room mode at or near your listening position. If you hook up a sub, even assuming that the crossover point is razor sharp, you'll pour a ton more sub 70Hz energy into the room. which won't move the room modes a millimeter. What *will* happen is that you'll increase the amplitude of the modes so that a 17dB peak will become a 32dB peak and an 8dB null will become a 20dB null...and you'll be in worse shape than you were to begin with.

What Trev said is right...you'll need to treat the bejeesuz out of the room before you add a sub. Actually, once you treat the room you may not need to add a sub at all. If you do decide to add a sub, placement is crucial. DO NOT PLACE IT IN A CORNER. What Dave said about two subs is absolutely true, but you get into a difficult problem here: if two are good, what about four? Eight? Twelve? Theoretically you can cancel out every room mode by using enough subs and placing them properly...theoretically. By that time you might has well have treated the room and bought a pair of Adam P33's, right?

Frank

[ecc83]

Hi Frank,

Far be it from me to dip a toe here but I was not advocating multiple subs as a panacea for room problems, indeed my comment about exciting modes less could have been total, misinformed BS!

The point about two subs, very close to each satellite is that it all but removes the "displacement" effect due, AFAIK to less than "razor sharp" cutoff filters. Putting a sub dead centre would be optimum for image* purposes ( but probably not for other factors!).

Best of course is a pair of 1kW pk input 4cuft monitors with serious 15" woofers, but I bet even Trev' ain't going THAT far!

Bloodied but not bowed (well, not completely!)

*The "common knowledge" that we cannot localize LF is only true inside rooms. In the open air (or a very big room) we can for sure tell where the elephant is thundering down at us from!
Dave.

[TrevCircleStudios]

Best of course is a pair of 1kW pk input 4cuft monitors with serious 15" woofers, but I bet even Trev' ain't going THAT far!

Actually I have a pair of Mackie 18" active subs. (I just don't use them in the studio) - (actually that's not even entirely true. I've been known to mult the drum kit and send it back through my live desk and PA which I then miked again and squashed the crap out of - kind of a 'live parallel bus compression'... but that's another story). I wouldnt use them in the control room.

[ecc83]

Ha! Ha!

Actually Trev' I meant integrated BIG speakers like the phenominal old Kef R105's, tho' they had only 12" thumpers.



Dave.