DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers Lowest Price Guaranteed, Free Delivery, Free 3 Year Warranty
Go Back   DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers > Music Equipment Discussion > Pro Audio
Forgot Password? Join Us!
Home Register Groups FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Go to DV247.com
New to Forums or just joined? Why not start your journey here?

Pro Audio Mixers, mics, outboard, monitors, headphones

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10th October 2008 , 06:22 PM
Chilled to the 'bone
 
trbguy's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 417
Default Cheap mics vs. Expensive mics

Found interesting site Claes' testrecordings - the microphone section I've allways wondered how much air is there in the price of really expensive gear and more budget one. Now you can hear your self and make a blind test Behringer vs. Neumann. What I hear is difference in color more than quality. Any experience of what you get more when you buy 1000 mic compared to 200 mic?
trbguy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10th October 2008 , 07:32 PM
Mic Check 1!
 
TrevCircleStudios's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 3,829
Default

Mics are a personal thing. What I find is that:

1. the low end stuff (with some honourable - and usually dynamic - exceptions - EV RE20, Heil PR40, Shure SM7) tends to work ok on some sources and really badly on others. Case in point, I think the Oktava 219 works great on snare. I wouldnt think about putting it near a vocalist);

2. The mid range stuff tends to work really well on some sources and ok on others;

3. the high end stuff tends to work very well on a far wider range of sources;

So if you can find a low end mic that really works with the source you wanna record, you got a great bargain. Problem is you will have to test so many to work out which one works for you!
______________________________
www.circlestudios.co.uk
TrevCircleStudios is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10th October 2008 , 07:41 PM
Mic Check 1!
 
TrevCircleStudios's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 3,829
Default

Here's a couple of posts I placed elsewhere which might go someway to explaining why you might pay a lot for a mic like a Neumann U47 when there are a bunch of excelent clones out there:

Quote:

Any terms for describing it would be necessarily subjective because we wouldnt be using the same lexicon (no pun intended). If you havent heard one it probably defies description. I guess if I was pushed I'd say that generically a U47 is big and warm and kind of 3d and natural. That might apply to most of it's clones out there too. The difference then between them is in the detail. So if you put the clone I have (Peluso 2247LE) against the Telefunken AE you might say that the Peluso was slightly midscooped and a little harsh in the highs. (You probably wouldnt notice that if you heard the peluso on its own and had never heard the real thing) but if you put the AE against the M you might say well actually the AE sounds a bit reedy on top. Make sense?

What makes it worth som much? Well, that's subjective too. It might never be worth that much to you. But for the engineer who is looking for that extra something and has cash (that would otherwise go to the taxman) to spend...
Hope this is in some way useful.
______________________________
www.circlestudios.co.uk
TrevCircleStudios is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10th October 2008 , 09:18 PM
Forum Poet
 
I_Am_Bic_Pentameter's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 2,029
Default

There probably is something in some of the expensive mics, but does it make it a difference. Not enough for most things, even if it does.

Plenty of artists use mics in the 100 - 200 range for recording.

And live..... they still use Shure stuff - you see it all the time.

Getting the right mic suited for a purpose is important but certainly doesn't have to be expensive.

For vocals, studios like to put the mic through some hardare to warm it up. Then they spend the rest of the time trying to make it sound fake - for some reason.

To me, you need a mic to get the sound onto tape in its best condition, be accurate and able to pick up every aspect of the sound and reasonably priced mics do this with ease.
______________________________
˘ / ˘ / ˘ / ˘ / ˘ /
I_Am_Bic_Pentameter is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10th October 2008 , 09:18 PM
Chilled to the 'bone
 
trbguy's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 417
Default

It depends also what is the output of your computer when you listen to those test recordings. My main point was you can get quite good with quite little money. There are different sounding mics anyway in Neumann's and Behringer's. One has to have really good ears to tell those apart in blind test. It would be fun to see results. But anyway there isn't a absolute thruth when it comes to sound I found that site really useful, because I don't have too much money to spend. Neumann's seem also to be somekind standard it would look weird if some expensive studio I rented would give me behringers for use. Also sound is a strange thing sometimes what is wrong is right. History is full of those examples, when by mistake something good is achieved. For example Hammond which as I know was intended to be a church organ, well didn't quite work for that. I fully understand someone using Neumann's but making good music doesn't depend on that.
trbguy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11th October 2008 , 01:23 PM
Super Member
 
e-vinyl's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Coimbra
Posts: 249
Default

really nice thread although choosing a microfone its a bit of a subjective matter
______________________________
To boldly go where no musician has gone before
e-vinyl is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11th October 2008 , 06:19 PM
Forum Scribe
 
Monarch's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-vinyl View Post
really nice thread although choosing a microfone its a bit of a subjective matter
It cetainly is. Very subjective. The quality of mics is certainly very good once you get into 3 figures (maybe even less) but I most certainly was impressed with the Rode NT1a after really using it for some time. Lovely mic and under 150.

If there are better mic's or even far better mic's out there then they will sound better but thankfully I would not need to pay more for a Mic now to get a professional result.

I would love to try a seriously expensive Mic...but thankfully for now the quality of cheaper Mics IMO (at least the Rode Nt1a) are very good indeed.
Monarch is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11th October 2008 , 06:25 PM
Chilled to the 'bone
 
trbguy's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 417
Default

Very well said Monarch.
trbguy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11th October 2008 , 10:03 PM
Mic Check 1!
 
TrevCircleStudios's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 3,829
Default

I absolutely agree that it is perfectly possible to get great results from relatively cheap gear nowadays (and indeed very often recommend bang for buck gear). Also it should be said that there are some really fantastic mics in the fairly low cost arena (as I said above RE20, SM7b etc... and, further, you can even get great results from a lowly SM58 if you have a good pre).

However, all that said, there really is a vast difference between something like the Rode NT1a and even a midrange mic like the Telefunken AK47 or Mohave MA200. And when it comes to comparing the NT1a with a really high end mic like a 251 or a U47 the difference really is so vast that I can't even begin to tell you.
______________________________
www.circlestudios.co.uk
TrevCircleStudios is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12th October 2008 , 06:34 AM
Chilled to the 'bone
 
trbguy's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 417
Default

TrevCircleStudios is the difference easier to hear recording acoustic instruments, for example strings than guitars drums etc..?
trbguy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12th October 2008 , 08:58 AM
Mic Check 1!
 
TrevCircleStudios's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 3,829
Default

To be honest drum mics tend to be much cheaper anyway. For the most part dynamics are the order of the day on drums (except for overheads) such as the trusty sm57, sennhesiser 604 and 421 (jsut to pick on my own set up). Condenser and ribbon mics tend to be more expensive with LDC usually coming out most expensive.
______________________________
www.circlestudios.co.uk
TrevCircleStudios is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12th October 2008 , 07:55 PM
Forum Scribe
 
Monarch's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
And when it comes to comparing the NT1a with a really high end mic like a 251 or a U47 the difference really is so vast that I can't even begin to tell you.
I think a friend of mine actually has a U47. I really should have checked it out before he moved out of the UK recently.

Anyway thanks for the feedback Trev. Without trying all these mics out myself it's good to get some feedback from someone who has far more experience with mics than me.
Monarch is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 13th October 2008 , 08:53 PM
Super Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 326
Default

What's the difference between a cheap mic and an expensive one? I'll answer that two ways:

A.) Nothing if your preamp sucks.

and (provided A doesn't apply),

B.) One word: detail. Not the false detail that cheap mic makers try to create by boosting the mic's curve at 12Khz, but real, rich detail throughout the frequency spectrum, and realistic detail with respect to the distance the source is from the mic.

If you've never used a *really* nice mic through a *really* nice pre, the rolled the playback and said, "Okay...next track", it's something you really must try some time. Not there aren't some good Chinese mics out there, because there are. Don't buy the hype about about how all "cheap mics suck"...that's just not true. I've tracked a couple of dozen albums since I struck out on my own, and most of my mics are of the sub-$500 variety. If you can't get great tracks with a $300 Shure KSM27, the problem isn't the mic...

Frank
______________________________
Frank Oesterheld
GIK Acoustics
GIK Bradford Now Open!
www.gikacoustics.com
(+44) 020 7558 8976 (UK)
FrankGIK is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 14th October 2008 , 09:48 AM
Forum Scribe
 
Monarch's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankGIK View Post
What's the difference between a cheap mic and an expensive one? I'll answer that two ways:

A.) Nothing if your preamp sucks.

and (provided A doesn't apply),

B.) One word: detail. Not the false detail that cheap mic makers try to create by boosting the mic's curve at 12Khz, but real, rich detail throughout the frequency spectrum, and realistic detail with respect to the distance the source is from the mic.

If you've never used a *really* nice mic through a *really* nice pre, the rolled the playback and said, "Okay...next track", it's something you really must try some time. Not there aren't some good Chinese mics out there, because there are. Don't buy the hype about about how all "cheap mics suck"...that's just not true. I've tracked a couple of dozen albums since I struck out on my own, and most of my mics are of the sub-$500 variety. If you can't get great tracks with a $300 Shure KSM27, the problem isn't the mic...

Frank
Interesting points Frank.

You mentioned Chinese brands...I have heard a lot about the SE Mics, they seem to get good reviews (I think they are a Chinese brand)....I would guess they are low to mid in terms of Mic class...how would you rate them?
Monarch is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 14th October 2008 , 11:35 AM
Pushing the Envelope
 
mutilatedlip's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarch View Post
Interesting points Frank.

You mentioned Chinese brands...I have heard a lot about the SE Mics, they seem to get good reviews (I think they are a Chinese brand)....I would guess they are low to mid in terms of Mic class...how would you rate them?
I mainly use a Brauner Phantom C which is a beautiful mic for the money and comparable to stuff far more expensive. Just lower in price than it's big brothers due to less options/patterns etc.

I also use an MXL V69 which is a gorgeous mic for the money. It's tube and a great companion to the Brauner for darkening and warming vocals.

But then saying that, a vocal through an SM-57 processed with Trash for an alternate, but nice vocal sound did the job recently.
mutilatedlip is offline Offline
Last edited by mutilatedlip; 14th October 2008 at 11:44 AM. . Reason: crap capitalisation <
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
User Reviews: Mixers, mics, outboard, monitors, and headphones. Monarch User Reviews 62 29th September 2010 03:33 PM
[SOLVED] Radio Mics Ben I'm Looking For... 1 27th August 2009 07:52 AM
User Reviews:PA speakers, mics, monitors, power amps, mixers... Monarch User Reviews 0 20th September 2008 09:24 PM
Help - I needs to buy mics for a drumkit RedDavid Recording & Mixing 2 17th September 2008 02:09 PM
Naiant mics davewz Pro Audio 1 24th July 2008 12:34 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0
1999-2017 DV247 Ltd. All rights reserved.