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Old 11th September 2008 , 08:22 PM
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Default Room treatment

This may sound pretty dumb but when looking at acoustic treatment is it better to have wedged foam or pyramid shaped? im looking at the universal Acoustics packs on DV and it seems quite steep for 10 panels of the pyramid 600x600x50 where as the wedged stuff is about 50 cheaper?

Also my monitors are a good foot off the wall but it just so happens that theres a small window behind each (recessed about another foot) in SOS this month in their studio SOS they had a guy with a window and blocked it by hanging foam, im wondering whether to do this or not as id need 2 extra tiles to do this. Just wondering if its gonna act as a weird bass box or not? my monitors arent rear ported if that makes much of a difference.
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Old 11th September 2008 , 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAYDMF View Post
This may sound pretty dumb but when looking at acoustic treatment is it better to have wedged foam or pyramid shaped? im looking at the universal Acoustics packs on DV and it seems quite steep for 10 panels of the pyramid 600x600x50 where as the wedged stuff is about 50 cheaper?

Also my monitors are a good foot off the wall but it just so happens that theres a small window behind each (recessed about another foot) in SOS this month in their studio SOS they had a guy with a window and blocked it by hanging foam, im wondering whether to do this or not as id need 2 extra tiles to do this. Just wondering if its gonna act as a weird bass box or not? my monitors arent rear ported if that makes much of a difference.
not up on acoustic treatment but buy what you need, don't over buy!!! the stuff is extortionate. give a specialist your room dimensions and they should help or even if there is some one on the forum thats pretty handy with dimensions
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Old 11th September 2008 , 08:43 PM
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here you go
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Old 11th September 2008 , 08:45 PM
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Erm. Where do I start... ? Studio foam... Neither wedges or pyramids are particularly effective except in the high frequencies (which are the least of your problems). If you soak up the highs with foam all you get is a dead/boxy sounding room with enormous problems all over the rest of the frequency spectrum. I'd say don't put any foam in your room until after you are all set with broadband treatment. FrankGIK's the man to speak to on this.

If you can't afford pre-made treatment a couple of bags of rigid rockwool from Wickes will make an immediate improvement in your room. It's best positioned in the corners of your room from floor to ceiling if possible. Once you have sorted out your broadband trapping if you still have flutter echos then consider foam.
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Old 11th September 2008 , 09:19 PM
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this is a great article too jay
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Old 11th September 2008 , 11:42 PM
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They are both method of increasing the surface area of your absorbtion material. The greater the surface area, then all else being equal the greater the HF absorbtion.

Another aspect of the shaping is dispersal as well - its better to have evenly dispersed HF than rigidly reflected - the former gives a nice ambience, the latter yeilds ringing or fluttter (very rapid) echos.

Just using foam on it own will allways tame yhou room a bit - however it may not give you quite the result your want - sure imaging may be a bit better etc, but a wierd frequency response (due to HF being absorbed and mids less absorbed and lows not at all) might actually end distracting as much as it helps.

If you are going for room treatment on a budget that is too restricted to provide full range damping, then first of all you need to work out roughly what is wrong - which then takes you back to the mixes you have done - what common problems do you have.

For example - I have no treatment in here - just bought the place and havnt got around to it yet, but I know the main problems - bass repsonse all over the place, so I need some bass trapping to tame it a bit, but otherwise I just need some light absorbtion at first reflection points. Anything more than that will run the risk of upsetting the rather nice even frequency balannce in here.

A good read on this subject are the articles each month in Sound on Sound about studio makeovers and if you also search for room treatment on their web site that should also give some useful background information.

For example - this one from december last year (but it may be subscriber only)

Room For Improvement
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Old 11th September 2008 , 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
If you can't afford pre-made treatment a couple of bags of rigid rockwool from Wickes will make an immediate improvement in your room.
Couldn't agree more about the Rockwool - not cheap stuff, but in terms of value for money, there are few products which are more effective for acoustic treatment. It's useful both for sound insulation (keep annoying sounds out of the studio / don't annoy the neighbours), and for acoustic treatment (absorb, rather than reflect sounds off the walls). There are a very wide range of products from Rockwool, some of which are specialist acoustic items, though these tend to be for sound insulation rather than treating acoustics.
You do need to treat the corners first, but having done that if you need some more absorbtion, and want to do something creative with how it looks as well as how it sounds, you can use strips of this stuff - http://www.rockwool.co.uk/graphics/R...tic_Infill.pdf
Rockwool recommend slab type RW3 for studios - http://www.rockwool.co.uk/graphics/R...xible_slab.pdf
Don't buy rolls - they're for roofspace insulation and so on - you want slab, so that you can put up timber studs, and friction fit the rockwool between them. (You will wnat to cover it up with lightweight fabric, to keep the sound in, and stop the fibres from the Rockwool getting everywhere when anyone touches it!)
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Old 12th September 2008 , 03:04 PM
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cheers guys, i'll check the articles.

Yeah i dont wanna go mad, im only in the space temporarily till i can afford to brick up and fit out the garage properly so i dont wanna go nuts just wanna kinda sort the room out a bit.

The room is a very bizarre shape and the area im in is technically only 3/4 of the room as its above the dining room. the ceiling is fairly steeply pitched too which is why i didnt say anything about bass traps etc as i kinda dont know what to do, i guess bass traps behind the monitors would help. Theres not much flutter in here and it has to be said that the room is actually OK compared to the rooms ive had before so i just wanted to damp everything a bit to try and focus the sound. Having monitors that arent working properly really isnt helping either. Im just finding my mixes sound a bit boxy
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Old 12th September 2008 , 10:17 PM
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The way you treat a room has everything to do with the specific problems of the space, which are determined chiefly by size, shape and composition. What happens to be in the room can be important, but the three things listed above are the biggies. If you want to change the acoustics of an enclosed space, you must alter at least one of them.

If you're not going to do that (and most of us aren't), and you have a typical small room as Everest would define it (between 1501 and 3,500 cubic ft. as I recall) and what you're usually shooting for balanced response across the spectrum, then you'll need a balanced approach. Though it sounds simplistic, this is why I give the same advice over and over: bass traps floor to ceiling in the corners and on the back wall (and possibly wall/ceiling corners) and high frequency treatment at first reflection points. Most places will need bass traps or high frequency panels behind the studio monitors as well. At that point, after the basics are squared away, you may want to sweeten the room with diffusion...IF it's large enough (hint: most diffusers need at least 9' to work, and 12' is better).

The best materials are rigid fiberglass or mineral wool, but there's a place for foam, no doubt. It's at its best in the high mids and highs...not great on the low end though. Stagesound already clued you in to buying bags of mineral wool and making your own panels. It's very, very easy to do and it'll work great.

If you want you can email me some pics and I'll tell you where to put everything. No purchase required. That goes for everyone on this board, by the way. My email address is in my user profile.

Frank
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Old 13th September 2008 , 09:47 AM
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useful thread for me also, moving into a new house next week and plan to grab some rockwool and go for the DIY treatment
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Old 13th September 2008 , 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankGIK View Post
edit:

If you want you can email me some pics and I'll tell you where to put everything. No purchase required. That goes for everyone on this board, by the way. My email address is in my user profile.

Frank
A most gracious offer Frank.. Thank you
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Old 13th September 2008 , 09:54 AM
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Here's the stuff:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Construction...t/ciinsulation
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Old 13th September 2008 , 09:58 AM
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Ha, the vibes are good today.. Thanks as well to you Trev, I feel a lot better now as this stuff's exactly what I bought two weeks ago for my DIY panels (re-dec'ing studio as I type this.. )
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Old 13th September 2008 , 10:04 AM
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Quote:
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If you want you can email me some pics and I'll tell you where to put everything. No purchase required. That goes for everyone on this board, by the way. My email address is in my user profile.

Frank
I might just take you up on that offer also frank, once i get my gear moved in.
thanks in advance
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Old 13th September 2008 , 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conor_j View Post
I might just take you up on that offer also frank, once i get my gear moved in.
thanks in advance
Cheers dude much appretiated, i shall email some pics when i find the camera. yeah my main concern is the sloping ceiling in this room. Like i said before i dont wanna go OTT because as soon as i can i'll be moving out of here again but as i dont know how long that'll take itd be nice to get some sort of balance going on in here
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