Mixing Music and Vocals for Live performance

[PeterM26]

Hi

I am a singer and musician but lately, I have been using backing tracks only for my live performances.

My query is that I am trying to establish the best way to get the best mix, and at the correct sound levels, however, how can I get the optimum mix and sound from both vocals and music without feedback, and one over powering the other.

This is what I have done so far, and from what I am aware, its the correct porcedure when doing sound checks etc...

Firstly the equalizer should be set at o (Straight line on master section of powered mixer). The main fader on the master section should be right down too.

Now setting up channels....turn the faders right down for each channel that is being used, and also turns the channel gains right down, and the channel trims all set to noon. Now talk through the microphone and as doing so, gently begin to turn up the channel gains until the peak light on the channel gently flickers...this is now set. Do the same for the music (or if using instruments for each instruments)....then begin to mix and mess with the trims until the perfect sound is achieved!

Now should the music be more bassy than the vocals...should the trim settings be the same for both vocals and music!??? This is where I get lost.

I use a Powerpod K12-Plus mixer with Kam 1940 series mics, and my settings are at such:

FOR MIC/VOCALS
Mic gain is set at 9 o'clock
HF is approx at 11 o'clock
MF is approx at 9 o'clock
Freq is same as MF trim
LF is approx at 2 o'clock
Channel Fader is above 0

FOR BACKING TRACKS
Mic gain is set at noon
HF is just past noon
MF is approx 2 o'clock
NO FREQ TRIM
LF is approx at 2 o'clock
Channel fader is just below 0

The master equalizer has also altered from the straight line initial channel set up, to a smiley face wave.

HELP!!!!

Cheers

Peter

[Professor M]

I'll take the bait and try to give some advice.
Firstly, do you have anyone that can stand at the back of the venue and give you a perspective of the sound from an audience member? I think this would be most helpful. I have mixed live sound for may different bands and singers and know that no "one" solution has ever worked right out of the box. Every venue and gig will be totally different from the next. Your music will determine if the backing tracks or vocal should be up front, but the main thing to remember no matter what the levels are is to made yourself clear and without unwanted distortion or feedback. Personally I like a nice heavy bass, the ones that hit you in the chest, but this may not be right for your music. Bass should be clear and stand up with the kick in any case. To control the rumble of heavy bass roll down the 60 htz range a bit. Add sparkle to vocals in the 8k to 14k freq range.
Remember your main vocal freq will be nearly the same as an electric guitar so leave some room in your EQ for the vocal to cut trough. Good luck.
Prof M

[Stagesound]

Good advice there from Prof M - as he points out, the "right" sound is a subjective matter.

On the technical front, you should not be peaking with speech - the dynamics when you sing will be much greater than for speech, which means you will inevitably peak during your performance, and peaking means you have too much gain, and will "clip" the signal, which will sound bad, and could damage your speakers.

You don't say what your speakers are, but I'm a bit surprised that you have hi and mid cut, with bass boost on your mic channel - also, the gain would appear to be a bit on the low side, unless you are working really close to the mic and are a loud singer. (Though since you're using a radio mic system, its output is high relative to a wired mic - I don't know the KAM mics, but I'm guessing it's a line output rather than a mic level output from it. If you can, reduce the output level from the radio mic receiver and bring up the gain on the desk a bit more, to reduce the chances of clipping the desk inputs).

You should be aiming to have a good mix when both the mic and music faders are at the zero position. You say that "mic gain" is at "noon" for the tracks. Are you really plugging into a mic channel with your backing tracks? Channels 9/10 and 11/12 are the line input channels, and do have a gain control, but it's not mic gain.

Once you get the gains right, you shouldn't need to reset these on every outing - the relative levels , and correct levels to avoid peaking, will not change between venues. Actually the only things you should need to change are the graphic equaliser and the main fader. Since this mixer doesn't have a power amp gain control, you can use the power switch (100W, 300W, 500W)as a course control if you find that in a small venue you have enough volume when the main fader has only been pushed up a little way.

You mention a mid-frequency trim control - I'm not sure from the way you describe your settings what you mean here. The upper one of the two "mid" controls on this particular desk sets the cut or boost (effectively the mid "gain"), and the lower one sets the actual frequency at which the control operates - between 100Hz and 8kHz in your case. I'm guessing from what you say that you have about 9dB of cut at around 200Hz - which is a bit odd since you are boosting the bass end. I wonder how much that boost is really doing? It's at 80Hz, so unless you've got a really deep bassy voice, there's nothing down there to boost, and you are in danger of increasing pops and thuds from handling noise etc. by boosting the bass end of your vocals.

The "Smiley" graphic is a little bit worrying too - remember, a graphic is there primarily to fix poor room acoustics - if you need to consistanty boost both bass and treble, and cut the mid-range, then there is something badly lacking about your speakers. On the other hand, the punchy bottom end and exagerated top end may sound like it's cutting through background noise well, and particularly with backing tracks may make your system sound impressive, but unfortunately that's going to have an impact on clarity, since the bit you're not boosting is the frequency range where your voice is. The net result will be a system which sounds loud (and maybe is!) but needs to be excessively loud before your vocals are clear and sound balanced. The little 10 band graphic built into the desk is a rather blunt instrument, and I'd suggest using it as little as possible. (If you look at your user manual, you'll see that one of the suggested setups includes an external graphic, which is what you really need if you're going to do the job right).

My suggestion is as follows. Set your eq all flat. Bring the gain on the track channel up you can hear it to sing along (obviously you'e going to need the main output volume up as well). Now sing rather than speak, and turn up the mic gain until you peak - now back it off by about 15 - 20 degrees to give yourself some headroom. Now, with both the music and vocal faders set at zero, adjust the gain on the track channel until there is a good balnce between voice and track. (You need someone to help you here - you can't really judge this yourself). You really shouldn't need to eq the tracks at all if they have been recorded properly, so if the result at this stage sounds lacking in something (or too much of something) then your speakers are probably not "flat". You could make some adjustment with the graphic, but don't make excessive cuts or boosts.

Now if necessary, adjust the mic channel to sound right. The high frequency control should give you that sparkle Prof M suggested. You may need to keep the mid control for eliminating troublesome feedback frequencies in some venues, but experiment with it to get your voice sounding right - again, you need the opinion of someone who has an ear for music here - you can't sing and listen to the PA at the same time - at least not well enough to eq it properly!

When you're happy that you've got a good balance and eq, don't keep repeating this execise every time you go out. If you feel a particular venue is not right, fix it with the graphic (say it's a venue with a lot of heavy curtains etc. - you may need to add a bit of top end. Or if your speakers are sitting on a big boxy stage, you may need to cut the bass a little). Adjust overall level then with the main control, and the power amp switches.

[PeterM26]

Originally Posted by Stagesound

You should be aiming to have a good mix when both the mic and music faders are at the zero position. You say that "mic gain" is at "noon" for the tracks. Are you really plugging into a mic channel with your backing tracks? Channels 9/10 and 11/12 are the line input channels, and do have a gain control, but it's not mic gain.

No I am using channels 9/10 line input (Phono leads) for the backing tracks, and yes they do have a gain control, but as you quite rightly say, its not a mic gain! The gain control for the backing track is at noon! Whereas I am using channel 3 for my mic settings...this is an XLR-XLR.

Originally Posted by Stagesound

My suggestion is as follows. Set your eq all flat.

The graphic equalizer as a straight line at 0? Or all the trims turned right down!? My speakers are Pro Messenger 15 ins Peavey Speakers!

[PeterM26]

Thankyou for all the advice, I will go it a go!

[Stagesound]

Peter - thanks for elaborating on your gear and setup. Yes, all graphic equaliser knobs at zero to begin - sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Peavey don't say on their web site, but I'd mke an educated guess and say that the low end of the frequency response (50Hz) is at -10dB rather than the more realistic -3dB. Listen as you adjust the bass control when setting your eq - if you're having to turn it by a huge amount compared to the mid and top controls before you hear a noticeable difference, it's more than likely that your boosting low end frequencies which your speakers can't cope with.

Never "go mad" with tone controls, especially when you're boosting rather than cutting! What may not sound like a huge increase in volume may still be increasing the power going into your speakers dramatically. When this happens, you can overdrive your amp (causing distortion - bad for amp and speakers), and even without overdriving the amp, you may overheat your speaker voice coils. This will do nothing for their extended life! (But on the bright side, you've got a five year warranty with your Peaveys!)

I'd suggest that your speakers ought to be good enough to give you a reasonable sound without the "smiley" graphic equaliser. I'd think leaving it closer to flat may not sound quite so impressive, but I'd also be pretty sure the clarity of your vocals, and the ability to punch through the backing track will improve, as will overall balance.

(Think of it like this - if you've got a good mike, your mixer/amplifier faithfully reproduces the signal from that mike, and the speaker in turn does a good job of turning that back into sound, why would you need the smiley eq? If "flat" doesn't sound right, something in the chain is not reproducing the sound correctly. (Unless you happen to be singing in a room with big bass traps, and heavy curtains to kill off the top end - in this case, "smiley" may be just what you need!))

[PeterM26]

Originally Posted by Stagesound

Peter - thanks for elaborating on your gear and setup. Yes, all graphic equaliser knobs at zero to begin - sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Peavey don't say on their web site, but I'd mke an educated guess and say that the low end of the frequency response (50Hz) is at -10dB rather than the more realistic -3dB. Listen as you adjust the bass control when setting your eq - if you're having to turn it by a huge amount compared to the mid and top controls before you hear a noticeable difference, it's more than likely that your boosting low end frequencies which your speakers can't cope with.

Never "go mad" with tone controls, especially when you're boosting rather than cutting! What may not sound like a huge increase in volume may still be increasing the power going into your speakers dramatically. When this happens, you can overdrive your amp (causing distortion - bad for amp and speakers), and even without overdriving the amp, you may overheat your speaker voice coils. This will do nothing for their extended life! (But on the bright side, you've got a five year warranty with your Peaveys!)

I'd suggest that your speakers ought to be good enough to give you a reasonable sound without the "smiley" graphic equaliser. I'd think leaving it closer to flat may not sound quite so impressive, but I'd also be pretty sure the clarity of your vocals, and the ability to punch through the backing track will improve, as will overall balance.

(Think of it like this - if you've got a good mike, your mixer/amplifier faithfully reproduces the signal from that mike, and the speaker in turn does a good job of turning that back into sound, why would you need the smiley eq? If "flat" doesn't sound right, something in the chain is not reproducing the sound correctly. (Unless you happen to be singing in a room with big bass traps, and heavy curtains to kill off the top end - in this case, "smiley" may be just what you need!))

Thankyou, great advice!