DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers Lowest Price Guaranteed, Free Delivery, Free 3 Year Warranty
Go Back   DV247 Forums - A Global Community for Music Makers > Artist & Member Forum > Off Topic
Forgot Password? Join Us!
Home Register Groups FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Go to DV247.com
New to Forums or just joined? Why not start your journey here?

Off Topic Drop in for friendly banter and lively debate

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15th March 2010 , 09:38 PM
Uber Member
 
Piano's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 1,715
Default Did any of you watch that programme on Panorama earlier about illegal music Downloads

Just wondering if any of you watched it and what your views are on the whole issue? I found it quite surprising that quite a few people in the music business were against cutting off people's internet connection if they were persistent offenders, although they tended to be artists who have already "made their money" rather than artists starting out. Another interesting point was that, apparently, the people who do download music illegally tend to spend more on music per year than people who download legally. Some suggest that by cutting people off, you're basically cutting people off from your product which is counter productive....others obviously feel aggrieved that people are essentially stealing their product and not paying the artists for their hard work and in turn that can only have a negative effect on the future of Music as the money is often reinvested back into the Music. The guy from TalkTalk pissed me off quite a but, he seemed pretty unconcerned about what their customers may or may not be downloading and didn't support the move to cut persistent offenders internet connection off, but i wonder if he would have the same view if someone was illegally tapping into their internet service....hmmm. Who knows....it was quite interesting, i have to admit to downloading a couple of tracks illegally in the past, but generally if i like an album or a single i go and buy it or download it from itunes. Personally i think i would support a move to cut persistent offenders' internet access off. What do you guys think?
______________________________
System Details. Inta Audio Premium PC, Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit, Cubase 7, Yamaha N12 Digital Mixer.
BandCamp http://chriswilson.bandcamp.com/
SoundCloud. http://soundcloud.com/chris-wilson-1
Piano is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 15th March 2010 , 10:02 PM
Uber Member
 
Wilty's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stevenage
Posts: 1,066
Default

I think if the radio/popular media was better and played a wider selection of artists to start with people would be able to discover new tastes without resorting to d/ling tracks. Spotify is a big step in the right direction for me, and I believe LastFM is too but I've not ventured into that yet.
The answer is in the question really-its illegal. Whatever anyone personally thinks of it or whether they're happy to do it or not if they do, and they get caught, they should fully expect to get punished assuming the law is clear.
I know its a touchy subject and I hope this doesn't infringe on the terms of use, which I know where updated after the software debate.
Give it a few years and I hope the industry will have caught up with itself and through portals like Spotify and iTunes it may be a bit of a non-issue.

Just my couple of pence in the pot, I'm not an expert or an industry observer. I'm not even that well read.
______________________________
At the bottom of a rather steep Learning Curve (I like Brackets).
Wilty is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2010 , 12:27 AM
Keeper o' the Keys!
 
Dave Boulden's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,470
Default

I'm one of those people who think cutting users off will be both counter-productive and fruitless. As soon as people start having their connections throttled or cut-off they will migrate to sharing and download tools that use obfuscation and anonimizing proxy networks making them all but unidentifiable. This will have the net effect of making the proposed measures unworkable and therefore entirely ineffective.

Since it's clear it will be ineffective, there's no point wasting public money trying to implement it... and since ISPs will be forced to change systems to enable it, they'll not be doing that for free and those costs will be recouped from us, the customers by increasing the cost of broadband access.

IMHO, the best option is to educate people on the consequences of file sharing, particularly today's teenagers who don't even view it as criminal, let alone immoral. Throughout the program, the one thing that made me most angry was the attitude of teenagers who were essentially saying "why the f*** should we pay for it". I was also pleased to hear one of the musicians in the "anti" camp make it clear that for many working musicians, they weren't trying get their "grubby mitts" on the money to buy jets and mansions, they actually need the money they should have earned to buy food, pay the bills just like everyone else.

I think it's sad that todays younger generation who idolise musicians and movie stars value their idol's creative output lower than items such as basic foodstuffs. No-one expects to get free food or alcohol from the local supermarket, yet they expect to get free music and films like it's some sort of basic human right.
______________________________
The Dining Room Studio
http://www.drstudio.co.uk/
Dave Boulden is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2010 , 08:16 AM
Uber Member
 
Piano's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 1,715
Default

Yeah, it was definitely an interesting one. I just know i wouldn't be happy if i was being stolen from. You're right though when you say most teenagers don't even regard it as illegal, it also applies to alot of adults. I know a few people personally who download music and movies on a daily basis without giving it a second thought.

Anyway, just wondered what you guys made of it.
______________________________
System Details. Inta Audio Premium PC, Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit, Cubase 7, Yamaha N12 Digital Mixer.
BandCamp http://chriswilson.bandcamp.com/
SoundCloud. http://soundcloud.com/chris-wilson-1
Piano is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2010 , 02:41 PM
Super Member
 
Maccy's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Watford/Portsmouth Uni
Posts: 410
Default

Definitely need to download this as it's very relevant to my dissertation!
______________________________
JMcAdam.com
Maccy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2010 , 04:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Semi-D's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Inside Cubase
Posts: 187
Default

I saw this, all I can say is 'hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm'

catch 22 indeed!

one thing that amazes me is the worry of what it could cause if action is taken, everyone seems to forget it was really not that long ago that you couldn't get all the music you wanted for free and people did actually go out and buy music on CD/Vinyl, its all happened very quickly yet it would already seem its to late, or is it?
I still buy CDs, infact I bought a new album at the weekend!

has it gone to far to go backwards?

I think it has, so where does it go from here?
______________________________
If There's Hell Below, YOU'RE ALL GONNA GO!!
Semi-D is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2010 , 05:23 PM
Uber Member
 
Piano's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 1,715
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semi-D View Post
I saw this, all I can say is 'hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm'

catch 22 indeed!

one thing that amazes me is the worry of what it could cause if action is taken, everyone seems to forget it was really not that long ago that you couldn't get all the music you wanted for free and people did actually go out and buy music on CD/Vinyl, its all happened very quickly yet it would already seem its to late, or is it?
I still buy CDs, infact I bought a new album at the weekend!

has it gone to far to go backwards?

I think it has, so where does it go from here?
That's pretty much the way i feel about it. It's a hard one. On the one hand i can understand calls to have people's internet cut off if they are presistent offenders but is it really and answer? I have my doubts. I can understand Dave's point that people should be educated on the subject as alot of young people don't even see it as wrong or illegal, but i would argue that most of them do realise that it is wrong but see it as an offence with little or no consequences. Personally, i used to love nothing more that going to HMV and buying a new CD, taking it home, sticking it on, reading the booklet or whatever and adding it to my collection....i had physically bought something, it was mine. Even downloading from itunes doesn't feel the same, it feels like it's lost it's value although that is actually the way i have purchased most of my music recently because it is so readily available. Who knows what will happen from here.
______________________________
System Details. Inta Audio Premium PC, Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit, Cubase 7, Yamaha N12 Digital Mixer.
BandCamp http://chriswilson.bandcamp.com/
SoundCloud. http://soundcloud.com/chris-wilson-1
Piano is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2010 , 08:48 PM
Senior Member
 
Semi-D's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Inside Cubase
Posts: 187
Default

I think its safe to say the MP3 itself is responsible for degrading the value of music,

I feel exactly the same, I LOVED Vinyl/CD shopping there was a time when it was my Friday routine, I did it every week and looking back I spent a huge amount of money and got a lot of pleasure out of it, I could not wait to get home and spend some time going through all the tracks I bought!

I get ZERO pleasure from digital purchasing, the feeling just is not there!

one of the downloaders on the programme actually said 'I dont think a tracks worth 79p'
I think thats because the whole shopping experience is missing from buying downloads, the kid would probably find it insane if I told him how much I paid for some of the late 80's early 90's old skool..!!
I LOVED THAT, and finding them was the best part, stumbling across some of them by accident, what a feeling that was!!
kinda sad on my part how back when I was collecting them I thought they would be an investment but non the less I don't regret ever buying any of them, every single track has in some way helped shape me as a producer/remixer

as for the playstation generation most of them actually don't know its illegal, thats the worste part, loads of them have grown up never knowing a time without computers, the internet, mobile phones or MP3 players

my missus has a little sister who has just turned 16, she had no idea what a 12" vinyl was when her mum got some out the loft, when we told her she said 'ahh so thats what the black circle thing was for that used to be on top of the old stereo'
______________________________
If There's Hell Below, YOU'RE ALL GONNA GO!!
Semi-D is offline Offline
Last edited by Semi-D; 16th March 2010 at 08:50 PM. . <
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 26th March 2010 , 09:43 PM
Rave Digga
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,722
Default

copying music in one way or another isnt new.all internet downloading is the same as when i was a kid and youd get a tape recorder and record the tracks of the top 40 of the radio.that was still taking tracks without paying for them and downloading mp3s is exactlly the same,it maybe illegal but everyone at one point in the life has got music by one mean or another without paying the person who performed it any royalties.

you goto any computer fair and theres people selling dvds each week with about 20 albums on each dvd people like that should be the targets for prosecution not a young kid who loves to listen music but hasnt got enough money to buy cds each week so goes on torrent sites to get the odd album.

the reason im saying this is not to condone what hes done but for every album that person downloads hes not funding someone else whos profiting from selling a product illegally downloaded.

another thing that never gets pointed out too is just how easy it is to find illegal downloads ,all you have to do is type in a bands name or track name into google and 9 times out of 10 the first couple of links will be to torrent sites.now for those links to be priortised they have to pay google to put there links first so the place that needs to be stopped or monitored is search engines but they wont because they make billions each year.

also theres programs out there that steal peoples ip addresses or clone them so if they download items to there computer your ip address gets logged up as the downloader so if you did goto court they couldnt actually prove youve downloaded what they say you have so all this policing is a waste of money and time.

best solution is better policing of search engines and realistic pricing of products.me personally i hate mp3s they sound crap but it looks like they will faze out cds in the next few years which is a real shame .
waxxy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 26th March 2010 , 09:52 PM
Keeper o' the Keys!
 
Dave Boulden's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waxxy View Post
copying music in one way or another isnt new.all internet downloading is the same as when i was a kid and youd get a tape recorder and record the tracks of the top 40 of the radio.that was still taking tracks without paying for them and downloading mp3s is exactlly the same
Except it isn't really the same, is it. I used to tape stuff off the Top 40 on a Sunday night as a wee lad (and John Peel too!), but I wasn't then able to an exact 1:1 perfectly same quality copy it to thousands of my mates the same day. It isn't the fact that it happens that's so different now... it's the sheer scale of it.
______________________________
The Dining Room Studio
http://www.drstudio.co.uk/
Dave Boulden is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 26th March 2010 , 09:52 PM
Rave Digga
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,722
Default

your right semi d ive only bought 1 mp3 track of play.com and the quality was poor and it doesnt feel like youve bought anything same goes for any digital download i cant understand why people do it.for a pound more you get the dvd,case,book..etc.sure its quicker to get but too me theres no enjoyment of getting the thing threw the post ,opening the cd wrapper,putting it in your cd player,read the inlet book as you listen..thats a great feeling.

but clicking a buy button,listen it in vlc player is crap

but too get into the charts theyve changed all policys to digital downloads which is wrong and is kind of agest.most people that regulary buy downloads will be aged 15---25 so that age group now dictates what goes into the charts and what doesnt thats the real reason pop idol crap gets into the charts and better produced songs dont its because there target audience would rather buy the cd than go on istore and buy it.im angry at the way the charts are run now and in away there dimise is the record companys fault and now there looking at ways to shift the blame from them to someone else.
waxxy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 26th March 2010 , 09:56 PM
Keeper o' the Keys!
 
Dave Boulden's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waxxy View Post
your right semi d ive only bought 1 mp3 track of play.com and the quality was poor and it doesnt feel like youve bought anything same goes for any digital download i cant understand why people do it.for a pound more you get the dvd,case,book..etc.sure its quicker to get but too me theres no enjoyment of getting the thing threw the post ,opening the cd wrapper,putting it in your cd player,read the inlet book as you listen..thats a great feeling.

but clicking a buy button,listen it in vlc player is crap
Yep, totally agree on that point... it's not just the listening to the music, it's the experience of getting it, reading the sleeve notes (not that there's actually a sleeve anymore!) and admiring the cover art.

Does anyone else miss the cryptic messages the vynil pressing plant engineers would scratch arouind the label on the master copy?
______________________________
The Dining Room Studio
http://www.drstudio.co.uk/
Dave Boulden is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 26th March 2010 , 10:02 PM
Rave Digga
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,722
Default

yeah i agree the quality wasnt the same but the principals were.
you were getting a copy of a product you didnt own by illegally reproducing it.
lets face facts when we were kids dave no one had the studios we have at home now.we can record anything at better than cd quality,copy a cd at the exact same quality...etc in our childhood all we had were cheap blank tapes bought from woolworths with our pocketmoney which we used every sunday to record stu allen,top 40,peel..etc we didnt do it because we thought hey im gonna sell this we did this because we loved music and wed sit there at night with our headphones on listening to these great tracks then when we got pocket money wed run down to our local record stores and buy the tracks we loved.
same things happening now kids download tracks ,listen to them on there ipods,if they like the songs they goto the concert or buy a dvd of them in some way if they love the song or artist that artist will get a sale somewere along the line.
but the guy selling the mp3 dvd at a computer fair doesnt care about music all he wants is 10 pounds and hes the one they should get.
waxxy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 26th March 2010 , 10:05 PM
Rave Digga
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,722
Default

lol..yeah dave i forgot about those messages lol..i had some crazy ones put on the records i had out ..they were pressed at porky primecuts and the enginners used to write stupid things on them..like mmmmmmm bacon lol

best cd ive bought recently was a best of feeder cd that came with a book and dvd and it was only 8 pounds ..bargain
waxxy is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 26th March 2010 , 10:34 PM
Keeper o' the Keys!
 
Dave Boulden's Avatar
          
           
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK.
Posts: 2,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waxxy View Post
but the guy selling the mp3 dvd at a computer fair doesnt care about music all he wants is 10 pounds and hes the one they should get.
Very true... and yes I did buy my C90s from Woolies... unless I managed to nick some of the ones my Dad used to order in bulk!
______________________________
The Dining Room Studio
http://www.drstudio.co.uk/
Dave Boulden is offline Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Past issues: Future Music, Computer Music and SOS pizu123 I'm Selling... 0 7th March 2010 01:19 AM
Here's an interesting if totally illegal way to make money as an artist... whitecat Off Topic 4 11th June 2009 09:43 AM
FAO: Computer Music/Future Music staff sureno Off Topic 2 21st April 2009 09:20 AM
Amazon MP3 downloads! sureno The Hot Link 5 8th November 2008 10:15 AM
MTV Liverpool Music Week teams up with SAE to offer Music Education Programů Ether Surreal The Hot Link 4 14th October 2008 03:35 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0
1999-2017 DV247 Ltd. All rights reserved.