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Old 3rd February 2009 , 04:26 PM
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Question Digital Eq's - Can you really tell the difference?

Iv recently noticed an article where the actual character/code of a digital Eq has come in to question?
Is there really any difference between your D.A.S's native Eq and an expensive 3rd party Eq.

2 articles worth reading to help get a deeper understanding of this debate can be found

HERE
& kindly pointed out by T3 HERE

I wanted to have this discussion on our forum as i feel there are members here with valuable opinions worth taking note of, i hope mods dont take offence to linking "other" threads here
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Last edited by sureno; 3rd February 2009 at 04:29 PM. . <
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 04:36 PM
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For me the answer is yes and no.

There are different kinds of EQs of course - some minimum phase, some linear phase, those will sound different.

The thing is, those who spend all this time attempting to get EQs to null are missing part of the point - the workflow. Yes, maybe I can tweak tweak tweak until my free Digi EQIII sounds like my expensive X-EQ.

But my Digi EQIII doesn't run on Duende. It doesn't have the same workflow/interface I'm now used to. It won't necessarily respond the same way to how I twist the (virtual) knobs. In the case of other EQs the band types, filters etc are not necessarily going to ever be identical and in some cases it's "best tool for the job" even if that means looking at it purely from an ergonomic standpoint.

Changing topic slightly, with the Waves SSL stuff, yes, I think the 'Analog' button just adds noise. But with the new PSP sQuad stuff, the saturation seems far more realistic and vibrant/variable. So it may be those sorts of details going forward that are going to divide the men from the boys and the tools from the toys.
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 04:56 PM
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People still use digital EQ's??? What's the world coming to...?
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
People still use digital EQ's??? What's the world coming to...?
Yeah, that George Massenburg guy, he's ruined everything.
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 06:06 PM
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So apart from Bruce over there (Die Hard) it kind of boils down to GUI and work flow for the user for the type of Eq, unlike compressors you really need one of each type you are completely or closest comfortable with.. excuse my terrible grammar
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 06:08 PM
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If I had to ONLY use digital EQs for the rest of eternity I would be just fine with that.

If I had to ONLY use digital compressors, on the other hand, I'd throw myself out of a window.

Digital EQs are excellent (well, they can be excellent if they're well-designed).

Digital compressors have issues that may not be solved until quantum computing is upon us, because of the fact that they work in a non-linear fashion - linear math does not suit them. Yes, some are better than others and there are a few I'm happy to use in the box, but even my lowly dbx 160A blows away any ITB "tracking" comp.
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal3 View Post
If I had to ONLY use digital EQs for the rest of eternity I would be just fine with that.

If I had to ONLY use digital compressors, on the other hand, I'd throw myself out of a window.

Digital EQs are excellent (well, they can be excellent if they're well-designed).

Digital compressors have issues that may not be solved until quantum computing is upon us, because of the fact that they work in a non-linear fashion - linear math does not suit them. Yes, some are better than others and there are a few I'm happy to use in the box, but even my lowly dbx 160A blows away any ITB "tracking" comp.
yes iv read that about compressors. i think im more than happy with my logic's eq
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 09:37 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, that George Massenburg guy, he's ruined everything.
I know... I'm only pulling your leg. I use digital EQ pretty much all the time. My only analogue ones in fact are the joemeek and the massive passive (which does amazing things to a anything run through it fwiw).
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
I know... I'm only pulling your leg. I use digital EQ pretty much all the time. My only analogue ones in fact are the joemeek and the massive passive (which does amazing things to a anything run through it fwiw).
I'm looking forward to the UAD-2 Massive Passive. Scarily, it's probably coming.

I use a TFPro P9 as my 2-buss colour EQ. It's broad-strokes only and pretty much all about warming things up and just adding a bit of analogue goodness at the end. I will also play with the 3-band EQs on my Alpha Channels if it really helps the signal on the way in - when I bought those I kept thinking to myself I'd patch them in as mix EQs for little things when it came time, but I've never bothered, there's been no advantage to it considering the sacrifice I'd have to make to the sound in the DA->AD round trip.

Never thought I'd be asking you this, Trev, but have you got a favourite or go-to ITB EQ? Digi EQIII perhaps? (it's actually decent )
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 10:09 PM
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Digi EQ3 or Mcdsp for sculpting, UAD Neve for colour.
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 10:27 PM
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I'm actually doing my dissertation on this. I picked it because mainly I'm getting fed up with the lack of technical answers and pure opion/speil that surrounds EQ plug-ins.

In hardware, its simple to see how things are different. You can open the box, look at the circuit and go from there. Software is a different kettle of fish altogether, because you don't get that level of access to the inner workings.

I can perfectly believe that many digital eq's are very, very similar. Generally speaking, my research seems to indicate that it's the way an eq deals with phase, rather then frequency..that defines 90% of its sound or character.

I've not got round to doing impulse or spectral decomposition of tones yet, but when I'm done in April..I'll stick it up.

quite simply, it should be the biggest (and hopefully most accurate) EQ test ever. I'm doing the ones included in Cubase, Protools, Logic & Live. 3rd party plugs will include PSP Neon and MasterQ, UAD (when I get it running) and Waves.

Lets see how the cookie crumbles !
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 10:30 PM
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Nice one. Sounds like you should be joining AES and publishing it as a white paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdRyan View Post
I'm actually doing my dissertation on this. I picked it because mainly I'm getting fed up with the lack of technical answers and pure opion/speil that surrounds EQ plug-ins.

In hardware, its simple to see how things are different. You can open the box, look at the circuit and go from there. Software is a different kettle of fish altogether, because you don't get that level of access to the inner workings.

I can perfectly believe that many digital eq's are very, very similar. Generally speaking, my research seems to indicate that it's the way an eq deals with phase, rather then frequency..that defines 90% of its sound or character.

I've not got round to doing impulse or spectral decomposition of tones yet, but when I'm done in April..I'll stick it up.

quite simply, it should be the biggest (and hopefully most accurate) EQ test ever. I'm doing the ones included in Cubase, Protools, Logic & Live. 3rd party plugs will include PSP Neon and MasterQ, UAD (when I get it running) and Waves.

Lets see how the cookie crumbles !
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
Nice one. Sounds like you should be joining AES and publishing it as a white paper.
+1!

Sounds like it could be very controversial as well... this sort of stuff inflames passions (even though it's software!) - expect flak from all sides.

But good luck with it, I can't wait to read it.
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 10:35 PM
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I doubt I would be good enough at under-grad level to go in the AES.

Besides, I have a feeling that my report may not make me too popular with certain audio companies, who sponsor the AES. It will be my masterpiece goodbye to the world of audio. Aside from my own fun, I'm getting out when I'm done with my final exam and joining the 9-5 !
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Old 3rd February 2009 , 10:37 PM
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Quote:
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I doubt I would be good enough at under-grad level to go in the AES.

Besides, I have a feeling that my report may not make me too popular with certain audio companies, who sponsor the AES. It will be my masterpiece goodbye to the world of audio. Aside from my own fun, I'm getting out when I'm done with my final exam and joining the 9-5 !
Nothing ventured nothing gained!
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