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The Music Industry - 'State Of Play' Have your say on what's good, bad or ugly about the global Music Industry in the 21st Century

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Old 4th June 2010 , 02:30 PM
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Default Some more sad realities of the music industry...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...s/10220002.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8605529.stm

Certainly doesn't help the oft-repeated story that "the money's in touring now." Unless you're Ticketmaster/Live Nation, which I believe is run by this guy:

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Old 4th June 2010 , 03:29 PM
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The top link will bring a tear to Dave's eye.

I must admit I've decided not to tour this year.
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Old 4th June 2010 , 05:37 PM
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The top link will bring a tear to Dave's eye.
It certainly will if the London show doesn't happen... I've already got tickets to see her at the Albert Hall in November!
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Old 7th June 2010 , 07:51 PM
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ive got a feeling thats why your seeing more and more artists join up too tour together..if a tour costs 1 million too put on it makes more sense to split the costs between a few acts too save money and sell out each show because youve got more headline acts so people feel there getting more for there money.

but i agree places like ticketmaster are as worse than ticket touts they set a fix fee and sew up all the major venues so acts have to take what there given or they dont get too play at the major venues its crocked and needs looking at but it wont because like alot of the music buisness its run by crooks who dont care about music or fans just about how much they can screw out of you..
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Old 7th June 2010 , 08:13 PM
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...the music buisness its run by crooks who dont care about music or fans just about how much they can screw out of you..
The third word in this quote is the ones that 'fans' don't seem to understand. Music is a business. The labels aren't in it for the good of humanity, neither are the promoters, the venues or indeed ticketmaster. For the most part all of these organisations need to make a return for their investors (i.e. the people who put up the money to make it all happen in the first place). It's not about screwing people, it's about working out what the market is willing to pay and then charging it. That's just how businesses work.

Are DV crooks because they add a mark up to the gear they sell? Of course not. Are the distributors crooks because they add a mark up to the gear the sell to DV? Of course not. Are the manufacturers crooks because they add a markup over the cost of designing, manufacturing and shipping the gear? Of course not. Businesses that don't work like that don't last long.
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Old 7th June 2010 , 08:40 PM
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For the most part all of these organisations need to make a return for their investors (i.e. the people who put up the money to make it all happen in the first place). It's not about screwing people, it's about working out what the market is willing to pay and then charging it. That's just how businesses work.
On the flipside, any business that destroys an entire revenue stream by alienating customers is not going to last long either. In some ways Imogen Heap is actually more of a "customer" of Ticketmaster/Live Nation than the ticket-buying public, because it could be argued that she's paying for their services, even if on paper it looks more like a wholesale/retail arrangement.

If she has to stop touring because there's no profit in it for her, well, then there's no profit for them either, is there.

Yes, there must be a return on investment - but you have to respect your public as well. I can't think of any successful business that looks upon its customers with the same disrespect and disdain that the music industry often does, and that's just one of the reasons why it's in the tank. Ok - wait - I can think of one - and that's the banking sector - but they're doing fine, right? Right?
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Old 7th June 2010 , 09:39 PM
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On the flipside, any business that destroys an entire revenue stream by alienating customers is not going to last long either. In some ways Imogen Heap is actually more of a "customer" of Ticketmaster/Live Nation than the ticket-buying public, because it could be argued that she's paying for their services, even if on paper it looks more like a wholesale/retail arrangement.

If she has to stop touring because there's no profit in it for her, well, then there's no profit for them either, is there.

Yes, there must be a return on investment - but you have to respect your public as well. I can't think of any successful business that looks upon its customers with the same disrespect and disdain that the music industry often does, and that's just one of the reasons why it's in the tank. Ok - wait - I can think of one - and that's the banking sector - but they're doing fine, right? Right?
I agree entirely (though of course it may be that her shows simply dont attract enough people to make it profitable for either her or them. Her business may be failing like any that isnt strong enough to support itself. They in turn may not be willing to cut prices to her because they can more profitably book someone else) But at the same time only the market can sort itself out. When they realise that their activities are actually losing them revenue then, as you say, they will change or die. If they die the market bounces back, if they they change the market bounces back.
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Old 7th June 2010 , 10:17 PM
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i didnt mean it like that trev ..yep they all need to make a profit im not disputing that and to bring dv247 into it is stupid trev this has nothing to do with the intiall post.

sure everyone needs to make a profit but its wrong for these ticket selling companys too advertise tickets on there websites for say 40 pounds ,you click on the buy ticket then you see final price is 45 pounds because they add a fee on top then you pay another 5 pounds to get them posted too you.so you end up paying 50 pounds and they say well the 5 pounds we add is our profit when in fact they own that venue to start with there only giving the artist say 20 pounds per ticket sold and there keeping 20 pounds for themselfs and then they add more on top which the artist cant do anything about because they only get a flat fee to start with.

its wrong the artist people want to see and support are getting less than the people selling the tickets.the people like ticketmaster are in a no lose situation they dont put up the money to have the show at there venues,they dont have to worry about advertising it if there a well known act and they know they can charge whatever they like for drinks and food at the show so they make massive mark ups on those too the only people who win are the promoters.
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Old 7th June 2010 , 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios View Post
I agree entirely (though of course it may be that her shows simply dont attract enough people to make it profitable for either her or them.
I think the point she is trying to make is that she is in that middle ground... too big for small venues and not mainstream enough for huge venues and stadiums. The different ends of the scale are polarising leaving a gap where there's not enough profit to make touring viable, and if you're not touring to increase your exposure, you're not going to become more known to the mainstream.
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Old 8th June 2010 , 06:31 AM
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stupid? Man you do like personal attacks. Inother example of capitalism isn't relevant? Not sure I get where you are coming from there dude (but I certainly wouldn't call you stupid for missing the connection).

Quote:
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i didnt mean it like that trev ..yep they all need to make a profit im not disputing that and to bring dv247 into it is stupid trev this has nothing to do with the intiall post.

sure everyone needs to make a profit but its wrong for these ticket selling companys too advertise tickets on there websites for say 40 pounds ,you click on the buy ticket then you see final price is 45 pounds because they add a fee on top then you pay another 5 pounds to get them posted too you.so you end up paying 50 pounds and they say well the 5 pounds we add is our profit when in fact they own that venue to start with there only giving the artist say 20 pounds per ticket sold and there keeping 20 pounds for themselfs and then they add more on top which the artist cant do anything about because they only get a flat fee to start with.

its wrong the artist people want to see and support are getting less than the people selling the tickets.the people like ticketmaster are in a no lose situation they dont put up the money to have the show at there venues,they dont have to worry about advertising it if there a well known act and they know they can charge whatever they like for drinks and food at the show so they make massive mark ups on those too the only people who win are the promoters.
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Old 8th June 2010 , 06:38 AM
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Quote:
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I think the point she is trying to make is that she is in that middle ground... too big for small venues and not mainstream enough for huge venues and stadiums. The different ends of the scale are polarising leaving a gap where there's not enough profit to make touring viable, and if you're not touring to increase your exposure, you're not going to become more known to the mainstream.


Ah, now we are getting to the nub of it. Read more closely. She wants a flash stage show "so her fans can have their best ever gig expereince". Her revenues are not covering her tour (read 'stage show') costs... But it's everyone else who is at fault. My perspective on this is a simple one: her costs outweigh her income so she's living beyond her means. She is incurring the cost of a bigger tour than the crowd she is attracting.

Don't get me wrong on all this. The industry is in a mess at this point. Almost everyone involved has seen their income drop. But it sounds to me on this one like at least some of her woes are of her own making.
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Old 8th June 2010 , 10:21 AM
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Don't get me wrong on all this. The industry is in a mess at this point. Almost everyone involved has seen their income drop. But it sounds to me on this one like at least some of her woes are of her own making.
Yes, there certainly is an element of that in the situation. She simply does *that kind of music* where an elaborate show is a really good fit. The current economy doesn't help. However, I think she does have a valid point where the merging of ticket companies and venue owners is now shifting from being a cartel and practically becoming a monopoly.... monopolies are good for no-one but the monopoly itself.
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Old 8th June 2010 , 02:31 PM
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bloody hell trev take a chill pill were was the personall attack by me too you?i guess this is a nerve breaker with you i think its best i stay out of this youve got your opinion ive got mine no personall attack was made towards you mate.
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Old 8th June 2010 , 02:54 PM
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I often read what people say about the state of the music industry but can't really comment as I have little interest in making a living out of it.

I will ask the question though.

If record (mp3/CD/DVD) are up (although perhaps not revenue) and income from touring and live shows is up where is the money going? Distribution costs must be down with digital delivery and the outlets for music are everywhere you look.

Maybe there are too many people chasing a cut of the same sized pie now?
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Old 8th June 2010 , 07:07 PM
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bloody hell trev take a chill pill were was the personall attack by me too you?i guess this is a nerve breaker with you i think its best i stay out of this youve got your opinion ive got mine no personall attack was made towards you mate.
Mate I'm completely chilled. Am just having a debate.

I've just noticed that some people are a bit fond of saying 'doing/saying x is stupid'. That is personal. Look through any of my posts on this forum. I often disagree with what is being said but never say something is stupid as that implies someone is stupid for saying it.
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