Now this makes me wonder

[EdRyan]

Jsut had a look at this website

http://www.acapellaheaven.co.uk/volumes.asp#1

and reading it makes me wonder about how creative a lot of 'a lister' dance producer/dj types actually are.

There's a lot of big names of user of to this website. Roger Sanchez, Soulseekerz, Filo & Peri, ATB, Peter Gelderbrom, Lost Witness have all used vocals from these compilations...

Having a vocal 'pre-done' is having at least 1/2 the work of writing, editing and producing a track. The funnier thing is that the site owners don't give you permission to release the track..they still want their slice of the pie for performance and writers. But my question is..

Is this cheating?

[modz1]

Originally Posted by EdRyan

Is this cheating?

Not especially - It's just a legitimate source for vocal bites, hooks or maybe even a full performance. It may well as be a sample CD.. or an acapella pass from an old record.. This way, at least the performers/writers get paid.

It does however beg the question that you raised wondering just how talented the 'A' list fraternity are? Could their song writing/production ability stretch to writing emotive and meaningful lyrics.. Structure a musical arrangement that could touch the soul ..Or even record, produce and mix a vocal performance themselves..? perhaps not

One or two liner, sample hook tracks are mostly disposable, of the moment experiences (admittedly, the quality one's have their rightful place on the dancefloor and airwaves)..And that accounts for a helluva lot of output from those ubiquitous 'A' listers.. Fortunately, to save the day, come those who's talent for combining good song writing (or even coherent sample based compendiums) with a great musical backing and killer groove (step forward the Freemasons for example), who could actually re-define that collective category one would call 'A' Listers?

[sureno]

Originally Posted by modz1

Could their song writing/production ability stretch to writing emotive and meaningful lyrics.. Structure a musical arrangement that could touch the soul ..Or even record, produce and mix a vocal performance themselves..? perhaps not

The answer to the question you seek is....NO!
sureno has spoken, go and spread the word

on a serious note i think 80% of the electronic music scene don't have the talent to do so, some have admittedly but will often try and outsource the more talented parts for some one more experienced in the desired field, freemasons are a perfect example, instead of trying to program in some strings for instance they will simply get some live strings in to play, their vocals are more often covers than originals though

[EdRyan]

The masons are almost an exception. They are very talented, but more so as remixers then producers and writers in their own right. Their own stuff so far has been pretty uninspired

Love On My Mind - Replayed sample (Jackie Moore)
Uninvited - Replayed sample (Alanis Morisette)
Watchin - Replayed sample (Deborah Cox)
I Feel Like - Replayed sample (Kaskade)
Pacific - Replayed Sample (can't remember)
When You Touch Me - Written By Katherine Ellis (so I'm told)

That said, the remix of Kelly Rowland 'Work' was pretty classy. Caught everyone off gaurd.. it could easily have stood up as a track on its own. But like I say, they did it for someone else. They need to be more original for themselves !

[Monarch]

I think the internet has provided an amazingly accessible platform for samples from others e.t.c so it's so simple to go the easy route instead the harder and more rewarding original route.

Sample usage can be done in so many ways but I guess if you take it too far or don't really change much then it's not really original even if it is musical. Is it wrong though? I guess it's just not orginal.

It's just so easy to get hold of ready made samples now. It does not surprise me that many take a much easier road.

[EdRyan]

I think this service is a tad cheekier then sampling..just a tad.

The writers and vocalists involved are pretty good, and looking to exploit producers. Either people that can't produce/work on vocals, or don't have access to vocalists. It's open to anyone, because they sell the discs on. The next stage after that I guess is a 'bidding' war from tendered producers.

It technically is sampling, but its not in a normal business sense. The approach here is just a bit different. Normally sampling involves workign with material you're legally not s'posed to. This site is allowing you to play first and apy after..wheras normally you have no legal right to sample.

I wonder what their royalty rates are...I might sign up to see !

[Monarch]

A...ha. Yes. That is quite different.

I had a look on thier Home page (should be an "About" page I think) and there is a description there as well...ok definitely a different angle on vocal samples.

Strange. But clearly very lucrative.

[EdRyan]

I would have been more interested in their services if they did 'bespoke' jobs. For example, if I send them an instrumental, and they got back to me with a potential vocal... rather they do a load of acca's and then see who does the best job of it.

I wonder how long this model they have can work out. More and more labels are putting out accas and file for competitions. Normally for free or peanuts. Obvs, that is using your talents to remix somebody else, but that's pretty much what you are doing for these people. The difference is you get credited as a writer. Now, these acca tracks would be nothing without the beats underneath them, so by my reckoning the royalties should be in favour of the producer. I doubt they work or see it like that...

It is quite a peculiar way of doing things....

[TrevCircleStudios]

Originally Posted by EdRyan

I would have been more interested in their services if they did 'bespoke' jobs. For example, if I send them an instrumental, and they got back to me with a potential vocal...

Cross my palm with silver young man...

[Khazul]

Originally Posted by EdRyan

Now, these acca tracks would be nothing without the beats underneath them, so by my reckoning the royalties should be in favour of the producer. I doubt they work or see it like that...

You hit the nail on the head as to why I tend to mess with 'remixes' for interest rather than ever enter them etc...

Besides - my idea of remixing is taking existing parts and doing something interesting with them - not write a whole frigging instrumental to go with a vocal whos contribution to melody was probably harmonising with whatever progression it was originally recorded against.

Anyway - this mess seems to be the status quo now...

[EdRyan]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Cross my palm with silver young man...

How much silver are we talking about? And can you 'do' dance music?

[sureno]

Originally Posted by EdRyan

How much silver are we talking about? And can you 'do' dance music?

lol thats what i was thinking, thought you hated the stuff Trev

[Monarch]

Interested in Trevs response as well. Did not think Dance was something he would be interested in.