Metallica New Album...

[RedDavid]

Originally Posted by mutilatedlip

The problem is, does Joe Public really have the time and/or desire to actually listen for such intricacies in tmdoern music? If they're willing to adopt mp3/iTunes as their format of choice, it would appear not.

It looks like it.

I suppose, it's understandable in a way. We're visual creatures primarily, and we're much more confident with our eyes than we are with our ears. We recognise a colour far more easily than we can recognise a note, and we can recognise a blurry photo far more easily than we can recognise a poor recording. We as musicians, we tune our ears to hear these intricacies, but to your average punter, they don't hear, for example, a woodiness to an electric guitar's tone, they just hear an electric guitar.

On the plus side, it makes things easier for us. We needn't agnonize over differences in sounds (if they both have their merits, settle it with a coin toss). We needn't spend £2k on an electric guitar, when a Vintage or an Epiphone will supply all the sound we need. Plus, since the rough recording style is an accepted thing these days, we needn't stress about spending thousands on equipment. As long as it sounds good, that's good enough for the people. And they're your target market, afterall.

To be honest though, I'd be very happy to see albums released in multi-formats based on how they're going to be listened to. MP3 copy for the iPod with all the compression needed to make it sound okay, ditto for the CD copy, and then, a 96/24/5.1 versionspecially re-mixed and re-produced for those of us that still care. I'd be happy to pay a little extra for the HD version of an album, as I would for the HD version of a movie. Wouldn't lots of people?

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by RedDavid

On the plus side, it makes things easier for us. We needn't agnonize over differences in sounds (if they both have their merits, settle it with a coin toss). We needn't spend £2k on an electric guitar, when a Vintage or an Epiphone will supply all the sound we need. Plus, since the rough recording style is an accepted thing these days, we needn't stress about spending thousands on equipment. As long as it sounds good, that's good enough for the people. And they're your target market, afterall.

Valid points RedDavid.

Why should we go to the trouble of spending a fortune on equipment?

My set up needs upgrading. My audio interface needs to be replaced. I need a preamp or two or three. I need to get better monitors. My Squire Strat is not up to the grade either. And what about the convertors I need? And then I have to consider the acoustic treatment. And when I get that done, I still have to fork out for a Mac. Why? What's the point if I'm going to upload my tunes to myspace or distribute them elsewhere in mp3 format so that my name gets out there?

Why? Why?

Because I take what I do seriously. Yes, it's a hobby at the moment but I hope it won't always be that way. And if it were to just stay as it is, I'd still want to produce the best damn music I can. I'd still want to improve my production skills just as I'd want to improve my songwriting or composition skills. I'd still strive for the best even if it may take a while and I may feel I will never reach the level I want.

Why do musicians spend so much time practising their instrument? Why do they change that worn out cheap piano or guitar for something better?

Why else but because we strive for perfection and development.

If we were to conform to what Joe Public wants, where would we be now? If groups like Metallica (who can afford to rest on their laurels a bit having already conquered the world) have their material packaged in the manner we are discussing here, why should we all conform? Why don't all the manufacturers make entry level equipment?

I still haven't heard the whole album but from what I have been reading here and elsewhere, Metallica must be hiding their faces in shame. They can argue that that's not what they produced but it has come out under their name. And as for the recording, mixing and mastering process here, it just makes me want to work harder at learning how to do all this production stuff to the best of my ability and then take it to someone who really knows what they are doing.

If loud is in fashion, let's hope it's one that passes quickly.

[mutilatedlip]

Personally, I've always striven to get the best sound and to use the best equipment, especially when gigging.

I've always refuted the idea of an all in one workstation, preferring to get a real analogue synth for analogue style sounds, a digital piano for piano sounds, a Nord Electro for hammond, along with pedals such as delay, filters, ring mod, tremolo to supply those effects instead of all in one.

In much the same way, I expect my guitarists to not use Line 6 stuff, and the drummer to play a real kit and not replace him with a drum machine (apart from on certain tracks).

I know that 99% of the audience won't be listening for authenticity but as musicians and true fans in love with what we do, I think in our own minds we'd be selling ourselves short.

I guess it's a similar deal with hi-fi separates as oppose to buying an all-in-one system. You could arguably get by and good quality with a hi-fi system, but you know you just want the best of the best and pick and choose the pieces as you want to give you the best quality.

I think we're all stricken with the disease to get make sure we do our part to ensure we both fulfill our own high standards, and remain authentic with it by buying every new bit of kit that comes out!

When people striving for the above are forced to compromise by people with different intentions (ie purely making money) then what can you do?

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by mutilatedlip

When people striving for the above are forced to compromise by people with different intentions (ie purely making money) then what can you do?

So, do you think we should just conform to what is imposed upon us? Or should we fight to make ourselves heard above the noise?

[mutilatedlip]

Originally Posted by sphelan

So, do you think we should just conform to what is imposed upon us? Or should we fight to make ourselves heard above the noise?

God no. Fight all the way!

Whenever I've played a gig and the trainspotter comes up afterwards (and there's always some!) and says 'nice Juno' or 'nice Moog' I always get a secret feeling in my stomach that connects with the comments of a fellow anally retentive person.

I am that man who stands near the front and eyes up the equipment at gigs.

Terrible, but someone's got to do it. Why give up what you love?

Let them ruin it if they must. Who cares. It's all about the process for me

[Churst]

wow, I should really check the threads I start more regularly!!

Some excellent points brought up. This forum is truely a great place...

In terms of the equipment debate though, I don't think we can blame Metallica for using cheap gear when their signature instruments, which they use on stage and in the studio, go for many thousands of pounds.

I think someone mentioned the "some kind of monster" documentary thing that they released? That piece showed that the band are into their musics sound (even if it did show that they are sometimes quite misinformed and overzealous as to how good their music actually is). While Lars does have his prima donna moments he is very serious about his music. He was so convinced that drum sound was "genius" that he was brave enough to push it against the advice of many. Which is something not many people are doing these days.

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by Churst

wow, I should really check the threads I start more regularly!!

Some excellent points brought up. This forum is truely a great place...

In terms of the equipment debate though, I don't think we can blame Metallica for using cheap gear when their signature instruments, which they use on stage and in the studio, go for many thousands of pounds.

Yeah i have a KH2, its good but im glad i didnt pay £2000 list for it, my £700 explorer craps all over it in tone and feel. as for amps, well whose playing randall now ? randall tone is not mesa by a long way so that could put a nice spanner in the works

[FRETPICK]

I don't like or use I-tunes. o.k that's not so true. I'm divided. Put it this way. I haven't purchased an album from it. As a musician I wouldn't unless it was some obscure artist.
It's almost like...if you are an artist you have to be on I-tunes. Well....Led Zep never brought out singles.

[mutilatedlip]

Here's a classic example of what we've been talking about.

NME ran this story today, and added a Youtube video clip comparing the versions by way of demonstration.

What's most interesting, though, is neither the story or the video, but the first person's comment on the following page at the bottom. Kind of proves our point, sadly!

Metallica's 'Death Magnetic': 'Guitar Hero' beats CD? | News | NME.COM

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by mutilatedlip

Here's a classic example of what we've been talking about.

NME ran this story today, and added a Youtube video clip comparing the versions by way of demonstration.

What's most interesting, though, is neither the story or the video, but the first person's comment on the following page at the bottom. Kind of proves our point, sadly!

Metallica's 'Death Magnetic': 'Guitar Hero' beats CD? | News | NME.COM

That's just pathetic! There's clearly a difference in the quality of the sound. I only suppose someone who would comment like that is so ear dead from listening to louder-is-better music that they must be more than happy with the CD they bought, or downloaded or stole or whatever.

[Brandesman]

As I am currently mastering rock tracks I see that the latest fashion is to have everything as loud as everything else. If done carefully the loss of dynamics is reduced but having seen the waveform it is maxed out. How can a group like Metallica allow this to be released? Did they not listen to it? Apparently the music for one of the 'Guitar Hero' type games is on some peer to peer sites and the waveform for that is not maxed. Have they been mixed up by accident???

One of the groups who have bucked the trend recently is Whitesnake. Listen to their latest release. Sure it's not loud but...turn the hi-fi volume dial up. For such a busy mix it is clear. Listen to the Cowboy Junkies!!

We need to start a movement to get the sound right. Quality over quantity.

[sureno]

Metallicas new track analysis

[sphelan]

Originally Posted by sureno

Metallicas new track analysis

Man, I never thought it was THAT BAD!!!

[sureno]

Originally Posted by sphelan

Man, I never thought it was THAT BAD!!!

sorry i should of put, joke by it

[StratmanNick]

Originally Posted by sureno

Metallicas new track analysis

That is a nasty nasty waveform!!!

Interestingly some artists are now backing away from this 'level war'.

It's a great shame that so many still haven't got it.