The old phase reverse trick...in Logic ?

EdRyan · #1 (**permalink**) 25th July 2009 , 10:22 PM

Wondered if anyone her can help me. This is driving me wild. I have done it before, but it doesn't seem to be working for me here...

Im trying to extract an acapella from a track I like. So far...

I've imported the track into Logic. It's an interleaved file, so I created 3 audio tracks. One stereo & two mono.

In the audio bin, I have converted the interleaved file into the constituent left & right parts. These have then been brought in on the 2nd & 3rd tracks. Mono files, mono tracks.

The original interleaved file was then deleted to avoid any confusion.

The mono tracks are kept panned centrally, so that the left and right outputs are equal.

Then I used the gain utility to alter the phase of one of them.

The problem is that no sound whatsoever comes out of master at this point. Incidentally, the waveforms look identical at every point I've zoomed in at..

So, anyhow I've stuck the file up for you folks to have a butchers with. I'm stumped !

http://files.getdropbox.com/u/165420...20Remix%29.mp3

terminal3 · #2 (**permalink**) 25th July 2009 , 10:58 PM

Why you're not getting any output I dunno, but tell us what you're trying to accomplish? The technique you're describing would be for vocal removal, not isolation. In fact, without some crazy M/S processing I'm not sure how you would easily isolate the vocal. The phase-cancellation method basically takes advantage of the fact that very few elements of the mix are not hard-panned (the vocal being one of those that's left in the middle.)

EdRyan · #3 (**permalink**) 25th July 2009 , 11:43 PM

I want to extract the vocal, to reuse it !

terminal3 · #4 (**permalink**) 25th July 2009 , 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdRyan

I want to extract the vocal, to reuse it !

Well that's not the way to do it!

terminal3 · #5 (**permalink**) 26th July 2009 , 12:00 AM

I had a look at the track, I can tell you that the bass synth and ALL the drums are panned dead centre. The other synths aren't, and some vocal fx aren't (delays/verbs/whatever they're using) so basically, unfortunately, it's not gonna work...

although I would love to stand corrected!

(for this test I used Brainworx bx_solo and Waves Center)

EdRyan · #6 (**permalink**) 26th July 2009 , 12:19 AM

In the file I've just created, the main vocal element and kick are the things that dissapear.

If this version was loaded against the original and then inverted, wouldn't it just be the vocal and kick left in place ?

TrevCircleStudios · #7 (**permalink**) 26th July 2009 , 01:06 AM

yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdRyan

In the file I've just created, the main vocal element and kick are the things that dissapear.

If this version was loaded against the original and then inverted, wouldn't it just be the vocal and kick left in place ?

EdRyan · #8 (**permalink**) 27th July 2009 , 02:22 PM

It's odd. Not doing what I expected...

Trev fancy a go ?

terminal3 · #9 (**permalink**) 27th July 2009 , 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdRyan

It's odd. Not doing what I expected...

Trev fancy a go ?

I tried it too, no joy on this end...!

Getting an isolated vocal is never as simple as just getting the vocal out, even in the hashed way it usually ends up.

sureno · #10 (**permalink**) 27th July 2009 , 02:31 PM

Should of just Z transformed it mate, when in doubt Zed transform it

modz1 · #11 (**permalink**) 27th July 2009 , 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureno

Should of just Z transformed it mate, when in doubt Zed transform it

Would that save £10?

sureno · #12 (**permalink**) 27th July 2009 , 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modz1

Would that save £10?

il get my coat

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#1 (permalink) 25th July 2009 , 10:22 PM
EdRyan Son of 'Z' Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 1,477	The old phase reverse trick...in Logic ? Wondered if anyone her can help me. This is driving me wild. I have done it before, but it doesn't seem to be working for me here... Im trying to extract an acapella from a track I like. So far... I've imported the track into Logic. It's an interleaved file, so I created 3 audio tracks. One stereo & two mono. In the audio bin, I have converted the interleaved file into the constituent left & right parts. These have then been brought in on the 2nd & 3rd tracks. Mono files, mono tracks. The original interleaved file was then deleted to avoid any confusion. The mono tracks are kept panned centrally, so that the left and right outputs are equal. Then I used the gain utility to alter the phase of one of them. The problem is that no sound whatsoever comes out of master at this point. Incidentally, the waveforms look identical at every point I've zoomed in at.. So, anyhow I've stuck the file up for you folks to have a butchers with. I'm stumped ! http://files.getdropbox.com/u/165420...20Remix%29.mp3
Offline	Last edited by EdRyan; 25th July 2009 at 10:25 PM. . <

#10 (permalink) 27th July 2009 , 02:31 PM
sureno Forum Idol Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: west london depot Posts: 7,599	Should of just Z transformed it mate, when in doubt Zed transform it ______________________________ Where is the chase and how do I cut to it?!? WWW.SURENO.CO.UK www.myspace.com/djsureno http://twitter.com/djsureno
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#2 (permalink) 25th July 2009 , 10:58 PM
terminal3 Sound Guru Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London Posts: 2,176	Why you're not getting any output I dunno, but tell us what you're trying to accomplish? The technique you're describing would be for vocal removal, not isolation. In fact, without some crazy M/S processing I'm not sure how you would easily isolate the vocal. The phase-cancellation method basically takes advantage of the fact that very few elements of the mix are not hard-panned (the vocal being one of those that's left in the middle.)
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#3 (permalink) 25th July 2009 , 11:43 PM
EdRyan Son of 'Z' Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 1,477	I want to extract the vocal, to reuse it !
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#5 (permalink) 26th July 2009 , 12:00 AM
terminal3 Sound Guru Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London Posts: 2,176	I had a look at the track, I can tell you that the bass synth and ALL the drums are panned dead centre. The other synths aren't, and some vocal fx aren't (delays/verbs/whatever they're using) so basically, unfortunately, it's not gonna work... although I would love to stand corrected! (for this test I used Brainworx bx_solo and Waves Center)
Offline

#6 (permalink) 26th July 2009 , 12:19 AM
EdRyan Son of 'Z' Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 1,477	In the file I've just created, the main vocal element and kick are the things that dissapear. If this version was loaded against the original and then inverted, wouldn't it just be the vocal and kick left in place ?
Offline

#8 (permalink) 27th July 2009 , 02:22 PM
EdRyan Son of 'Z' Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 1,477	It's odd. Not doing what I expected... Trev fancy a go ?
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