All tube low power, high gain amp?

[Driller]

Greetings, I'm in the market for the above, price no issue, for my studio. I'm looking to get metal sounds without having to blow the windows out. All these 50 and 100 watt amps are just not practical.

I've looked at (not played):

Krank Rev Jr Pro
Mesa boogie express 5:50
Bogner Alchemist

On paper the Alchemist seems best having more features including footswitchable boost.

Can any Alchemist users tell me if it's any good for metal though? There are very few reviews on the net and they invarably play blues or slide.

The Krank sounds fantastic.

Thanks for any suggestions

Driller

[TrevCircleStudios]

look at the vox ad series. They are very flexible for the studio indeed especially if you are on a budget.

[JAYDMF]

Have a look at some of the THD stuff, theres the Tiny terror as someone suggetsed in another thread. Me personally i wouldnt look for a low output amp as your just missing half the market. using a power brake type device would be the better option IMO. If you want metal then look at the Engl Power Ball, distortion is just awesome although i havent heard the clean but from people i have spoken to about it they say its damn good just dont be expecting a mesa/fender super super glassy clean, but by no means is it a shitty marshall clean.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

look at the vox ad series. They are very flexible for the studio indeed especially if you are on a budget.

Thanks for the reply Trev but as I said above this amp must do metal and I'm not on a budget!

Originally Posted by JAYDMF

Have a look at some of the THD stuff, theres the Tiny terror as someone suggetsed in another thread.

Hi JD. Yeah I looked at the Orange and THD stuff but this is for rehearsal too (which I didn't mention) and they only have one channel.

Me personally i wouldnt look for a low output amp as your just missing half the market. using a power brake type device would be the better option IMO. If you want metal then look at the Engl Power Ball, distortion is just awesome although i havent heard the clean but from people i have spoken to about it they say its damn good just dont be expecting a mesa/fender super super glassy clean, but by no means is it a shitty marshall clean.

The amp is for my own personal studio so market is not an issue. I don't like the idea of a power brake colouring the sound and want to keep things simple.

The Engl stuff does look fantastic but again it's 100 or 50watt- too LOUD for 30 square meters of studio.

If I was looking for more watts I'd go with a Rectifier Solo.

Clean tones are not an issue.

I'd really like to know how the Alchemist does as it seems to encompass all I need.

Cheers
Driller.

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by Driller

Thanks for the reply Trev but as I said above this amp must do metal and I'm not on a budget!



Hi JD. Yeah I looked at the Orange and THD stuff but this is for rehearsal too (which I didn't mention) and they only have one channel.



The amp is for my own personal studio so market is not an issue. I don't like the idea of a power brake colouring the sound and want to keep things simple.

The Engl stuff does look fantastic but again it's 100 or 50watt- too LOUD for 30 square meters of studio.

If I was looking for more watts I'd go with a Rectifier Solo.

Clean tones are not an issue.

I'd really like to know how the Alchemist does as it seems to encompass all I need.

Cheers
Driller.

Cool. when i said market i meant the market of amplifiers not users, just to clear that up. Power brakes do colour the sound i agree but with things like the THD you can generally alter its characteristics.

Have you thought of going rack ? something like an engl pre coupled with a 20watt power amp could be a good compromise. not that i really endorse the marshalls (although i have an el34 100/100 myself) the el84 20/20 is not a pad power amp as long as you dont want a really warm clean (very thin sounding but clean none the less) or theres the mesa 20watt power amp.

Ever considered a Mesa Mark IV ? they have a number of different power options built in and do sound sweet as a nut, very very versatile amps. The black shadow speaker has a killer character too if you go for the combo.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by JAYDMF

Cool. when i said market i meant the market of amplifiers not users, just to clear that up. Power brakes do colour the sound i agree but with things like the THD you can generally alter its characteristics.

Have you thought of going rack ? something like an engl pre coupled with a 20watt power amp could be a good compromise. not that i really endorse the marshalls (although i have an el34 100/100 myself) the el84 20/20 is not a pad power amp as long as you dont want a really warm clean (very thin sounding but clean none the less) or theres the mesa 20watt power amp.

Ever considered a Mesa Mark IV ? they have a number of different power options built in and do sound sweet as a nut, very very versatile amps. The black shadow speaker has a killer character too if you go for the combo.

Jayd your further suggestions are much appreciated. One thing I didn't mention was the fact that I am looking for an amp with 6L6 power tubes. I have EL34's in my TSL so want a change.

This makes the Mark IV interesting but they don't make 'em anymore.

The Engl preamp idea interests me (as indeed does a Boogie preamp-Recto or Triaxis) but once again I cannot find a 6L6 power amp. Boogie/Marshall amp is el84's. In addition, to have 20watts only, means only using half of the power amp which seems a total waste.

I haven't yet managed to find a 20watt, mono, 6L6 power amp.

This is why the Alchemist, on paper, seems perfect.

I guess I'll just have to wait for Oct, Nov and try one out. (just discovered they're not vailable yet).

Cheers
Driller

[ecc83]

Evening driller,

6L6's eh! Now your EL84 is always cathode biased (AFAIK) and the EL34 fixed biased ( so it can be un fixed!) The 6L6 amps seem to have a foot in both camps so do you know which one you want?

Note also that 2 6L6's can still kick A so it will not be quiet!

I have just sent the plans of a simple power soak/ low volume monitoring design to a chap on the forums, open to all, just email. ( might start building 'em!).

Dave.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by ecc83

Evening driller,

6L6's eh! Now your EL84 is always cathode biased (AFAIK) and the EL34 fixed biased ( so it can be un fixed!) The 6L6 amps seem to have a foot in both camps so do you know which one you want?

Note also that 2 6L6's can still kick A so it will not be quiet!

I have just sent the plans of a simple power soak/ low volume monitoring design to a chap on the forums, open to all, just email. ( might start building 'em!).

Dave.

Dave thanks for the reply, sorry I've been away.

I'm definately after 6L6's and thanks for the technical info you gave, it sounds like you really know what you're taking about!

I've seen a few amp kits on the net but I really want to find something ready made with warranty backup. I've got to say though if I had the time I'd love toi have a go at building one.

Cheers
Driller

[ecc83]

Sorry Driller I may have misled you.

I meant that I have the plans for a power soak, not a full blown amp!

The PS is ps easy to build. No, really!

Dave.

[TrevCircleStudios]

this amp must do metal and I'm not on a budget

erm, I'll just restate my above post. The AD30 or even the AD 15 will do metal very well (as well as a multitude of other things) whether you are on a budget or not. Take a look at my other posts, I'm not in the habit of recommending gear that is not up to the job.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

erm, I'll just restate my above post. The AD30 or even the AD 15 will do metal very well (as well as a multitude of other things) whether you are on a budget or not. Take a look at my other posts, I'm not in the habit of recommending gear that is not up to the job.

Thanks for confirming Trev but when you said:

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

...they are very flexible for the studio indeed especially if you are on a budget.

I took that to mean the amps were a sort of compromise. I'm going to check them out but if they're Vox I'm guessing they're not 6L6 amps but EL34's.

Cheers
Driller

[TrevCircleStudios]

FWIW I often choose to record bands using the vox rather than the monstrosities that they turn up with.

6L6/EL34. Whatever. Details schmetails. Dave (ecc83) is the techy guy around here (and FWIW for Blackstar amps) so he's more likely to be able to tell you that than me. I rely on my ears. All I can tell you is that if you can't get a great metal tone with a mic in front of one of them then it's time to call it a day.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

FWIW I often choose to record bands using the vox rather than the monstrosities that they turn up with.

6L6/EL34. Whatever. Details schmetails. Dave (ecc83) is the techy guy around here (and FWIW for Blackstar amps) so he's more likely to be able to tell you that than me. I rely on my ears. All I can tell you is that if you can't get a great metal tone with a mic in front of one of them then it's time to call it a day.

Fair enough if you can get a decent metal tone with an amp but I already have a TSL122 which has EL34's and is a GREAT amp. I want the chance to get a different sounding, more American decent metal tone/overdrive and to get this I need an amp with 6L6's.

If you have a studio I imagine you have a number of different microphones
to get different kinds of sounds (amongst other reasons).

Anyway I will try the Vox's out and see.

Cheers
Driller

[ecc83]

Ok ladies,

So wazzup?! First of all Trev' the Vox AD series are not EL34 OR 6L6! They are TRANNY output stage amps. All the grit must come from my namesake in the pre.

Now the technical bit! The 6L6 is a "beam tetrode" whereas the EL34 is a pentode. It is generally agreed that the tetrode is a bit more "hi fi" than the pentode ( other famous tets' are the KT66 and the Mother of all output bottles, the KT88.). Our other top 'tronics guy and great guitarist was just today playing his Fender which is 2x6L6 and he said he liked the loud, clean tone it gives compared to an EL34 amp. He still LIKES the 34 but likes the L6 more for cleaner stuff.

So where does this leave us re a metal amp?! Well don't ask me! I just mend 'em! What characterises the tone of a metal amp compared to just an overdriven valve op stage?

Since you did the spam for me Trev' the Blackstar A15 MIGHT be ok but even on the 5W tap it is still bloody loud. If you can get to a shop Driller, try an A15 with a B'str Dual pedal.

AND!!! If you can wait a month you HAVE to try the HT5!

Dave ( not j.s.t.y&u.)

[TrevCircleStudios]

Where in the world are you Driller? Anywhere near Brum?