All tube low power, high gain amp?

[ecc83]

I see!

So you are all going to sidestep my question as to what defines a metal tone are you?

Dave.

[Driller]

Trev I'm in Paris.

As far as the sound goes, I'm looking for an amp that can give me a lot of saturation. Since I already have an EL34 amp that can do this and since common wisdom shows that 6L6's give a different tone to EL34's I want to get a high gain 6L6 amp to give me the choice between two sounds.

Additionally these two valve types have been classified as giving "British" and "American" sounds respectively. I have an amp that gives the British sound, I want one that will give me the American sound as well.

Driller

PS It has to be an all valve amp because everything else doesn't cut it for my ears.

[ecc83]

Driller: "Has to be an all valve amp...."

Still I say, try a Blackstar pedal, try to keep an open mind. You might be suprised.

A rather startlingly dressed America gentleman recently was!

Dave.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by ecc83

A rather startlingly dressed America gentleman recently was!

Dave.

S-tartlingly V-eritable?

[JAYDMF]

Well from my experience id say 6L6 amps generally (and i say generally, as there are exceptions i'll talk about later) are much much better for cleaner sounds, generally theyre very warm and glassy clean sounds where as EL34s are very brittle and harsh. When you get to the metal High gain end of the scale tho in my opinion 34s rule the roost most of the time (again this will depend on your tastes) as they generally just have more grit to them (this is what ive found from using my Engl 530 running through first my el34 100/100 and second a friends Mesa power amp (think it was one of the old Simul jobbies but that was a while ago now)). Like i said there are some exceptions to the rule such as the Powerball which doesnt sound like either IMO, very glassy cleans (i finally got round to hearing one a couple of weeks ago at a mates band practice) because of the 6L6 goodness within but unlike mesa and a couple of other amps ive heard using 6L6s when you hit that high gain it doesnt turn to sh*t it still keeps a real gritty character that more like a 34.

Metal tone for me: think a mixture of Vulgar display of power mixed with early tallica, High gain but not too much low end, id rather leave that area for a nice Ampeg to fill up

[ecc83]

Thanks Jay for at least giving a shot at a metal definition!

The 34/L6 debate is tricky because as I say, EL34's are rarely cathode biased a techniquie that tends to give less distortion than fixed.

6L6's are found in both configurations and it is not therefore supprising that many people find them "cleaner". A bit of radical circuit surgury to fix bias them could alter that perception drastically.

I do not think the tonal possibilities of the EL34 have been fully explored but....well, we shall ALL have to wait and see!

Dave.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by ecc83

Thanks Jay for at least giving a shot at a metal definition!

The 34/L6 debate is tricky because as I say, EL34's are rarely cathode biased a techniquie that tends to give less distortion than fixed.

6L6's are found in both configurations and it is not therefore supprising that many people find them "cleaner". A bit of radical circuit surgury to fix bias them could alter that perception drastically.

I do not think the tonal possibilities of the EL34 have been fully explored but....well, we shall ALL have to wait and see!

Dave.

The thing is, I'm not looking for a debate-I want to have both! I thought the whole idea of a studio was to be able to pick and choose between instruments/amps to find a particular sound for a particular project...

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by Driller

The thing is, I'm not looking for a debate-I want to have both! I thought the whole idea of a studio was to be able to pick and choose between instruments/amps to find a particular sound for a particular project...

Dude im on the same mission as you (although the low output is not in my criteria) but 6l6 amps really arent as easy as they first seem. Like Dave is saying because they can be used in a number of ways theres a lot of differences between amps, im not up on valves so i cant explain why but it must be something along the lines of what hes talking about that things like the Powerball are the exception to the rules.

Just find what you like and buy it, thats my rule these days, far too many times have i spent out on what seems good on paper only to find that it doesnt do what i want. My rack has caused me endless hassle and although i love the sound of it its more of a one trick pony than the powerball im now after which seems to meet all my demands. Just try everything you can get your hands on and dont buy until your truely happy, suggestions are litterally that and taking them all into consideration will lead you to the right choice.

[TrevCircleStudios]

I thought the whole idea of a studio was to be able to pick and choose between instruments/amps to find a particular sound for a particular project...

Absolutely right. Flexibility is the word of the day here. That said think of it this way, if you listened to the songs on my page can you tell me what was recorded with 6L6s and EL84s? Of course you can't. While you certainly want to be able to choose between different sounds it's easy to lose sight of that fact.

Have you looked at the Randall MTS series? The RT2/50 power amp for example has both EL84s and 6L6s and the routing is flexible enough so you can choose. Add to that the 15 or so preamps you can choose from (all models of famous names and hot swappable) and you have a serious amount of flexibility at your finger tips. Here's the manufacturers website so you can take a look at the gear. That's my route to flexibility. YMMV.

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Absolutely right. Flexibility is the word of the day here. That said think of it this way, if you listened to the songs on my page can you tell me what was recorded with 6L6s and EL84s? Of course you can't. While you certainly want to be able to choose between different sounds it's easy to lose sight of that fact.

Have you looked at the Randall MTS series? The RT2/50 power amp for example has both EL84s and 6L6s and the routing is flexible enough so you can choose. Add to that the 15 or so preamps you can choose from (all models of famous names and hot swappable) and you have a serious amount of flexibility at your finger tips. Here's the manufacturers website so you can take a look at the gear. That's my route to flexibility. YMMV.

Ive long wondered about these. You used one Trev ? they were stoopidly pricey when they came out £200 a module, anyone know if theyve dropped off ?

[TrevCircleStudios]

Yes I use em. The first song on my page was all recorded using a Randall MTS rig.

Am about to spring for a whole rack mount version (currently only have access to an RM100 which isnt quite as flexible). UK prices are stupid on modules but you can buy them on fleabay US for about £100 each. The egnater modded ones are the muts nuts. The nice thing about the MTS cab is that you can choose it to be filled with 4 different speakers from blues to greenbacks. Again provides muchs flexibility when tracking.

[JAYDMF]

Originally Posted by TrevCircleStudios

Yes I use em. The first song on my page was all recorded using a Randall MTS rig.

Am about to spring for a whole rack mount version (currently only have access to an RM100 which isnt quite as flexible). UK prices are stupid on modules but you can buy them on fleabay US for about £100 each. The egnater modded ones are the muts nuts. The nice thing about the MTS cab is that you can choose it to be filled with 4 different speakers from blues to greenbacks. Again provides muchs flexibility when tracking.

Nice. I do like the Randall stuff, have an RH100 myself which is nothing special but the metal tone pairs up pretty well with my rack amp. Dont suppose youve tried the tube series amp they do ? I would love to have an MTS but ive spent far too much on my rack amp already. Engl has to be done at some point but the moola is hard to come by with all the new studio gear i need. The tube series on paper looks good but its got very mixed reviews.