Songs With odd bpm's

[EdRyan]

Just wondered which songs people have encountered that have strange bpm values. Ie, not to a whole/square beat, or interval of (.25, 0.50. 75).

It amazed me that people would pick sick strange values for their songs. It makes finding the bpm and warping in Live a little more frustrating then it already needs to be.

I shall start with quite a well known (ie popular) culprit.

Joey Negro - Make A Move On Me is at 128.30 bpm.

Why couldn't he of just made the record at 128 or 128.50

Is he part of a sinister movement to halt the progress of Live, by throwing obscure bpm's at it

[Dave Boulden]

It's more likely to be due to the slight differences in PLL clocks used on the various bits of digital equipment the track passes if it gets bounced to analogue at any point or if the raw track is imported into a different DAW with different converters.

You might notice this if you ever import a track recorded on different converters, you'll find it drifts when played back via your own converters.

[sureno]

i get this all the time, im starting to think the whole world is against me, currently trying to figure out stings voices track bpm

[EdRyan]

It sounds around 108.

If you are after a house version of it, its already been done. Copyright did it a few years ago. Slick afro drums on it. There's an accapella of their version as well.

[terminal3]

If at any point it was moved to tape then variations in the speed of the tape could mean a really weird bpm count - but the giveaway for this is you usually won't be able to work out the key signature, either, as it won't line up to any proper reference pitch, ever.

[sureno]

i think that applies to vinyl too, i got the voices and wanted to do a remix along the same lines of afro drum but am going with something else, going to see if melodyne can fix the timing??? i hate accapella b@ll@x

[EdRyan]

Generally speaking, I don't play stuff that old. So I doubt anything I play has ever been near a Tascam 78 or 88. God I hated dats. Having to stripe the tape, make sure all the clocks were on the same rate, arming them etc. They were even worse if you didn't have that remote control stand unit for them.

It makes you appreciate the hassle we no longer have these days in music production. Just about everything and anything can be adjusted or tweaked beyond recognition.

But the progress brings about new challenges and issues...10 years ago you would never have dreamed of being able to treat audio as elastic. So 'warping' or picking warp points wouldn't have crossed your mind.

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by EdRyan

Generally speaking, I don't play stuff that old. So I doubt anything I play has ever been near a Tascam 78 or 88. God I hated dats. Having to stripe the tape, make sure all the clocks were on the same rate, arming them etc. They were even worse if you didn't have that remote control stand unit for them.

It makes you appreciate the hassle we no longer have these days in music production. Just about everything and anything can be adjusted or tweaked beyond recognition.

But the progress brings about new challenges and issues...10 years ago you would never have dreamed of being able to treat audio as elastic. So 'warping' or picking warp points wouldn't have crossed your mind.

Wow, I was talkin' older than DATs... think "analogue" ... and clocks be damned with that stuff!

Lots of "newer" stuff often has a playthrough to analogue tape to get the "warmth" - it's one way of tackling the lack thereof in the digital world. not sure how much it happens in the sort of music you guys deal with, though.

[Dave Boulden]

Originally Posted by EdRyan

But the progress brings about new challenges and issues...10 years ago you would never have dreamed of being able to treat audio as elastic. So 'warping' or picking warp points wouldn't have crossed your mind.

Well, they might have done, but you defined the warp points with a razor-blade and a splicing block

[modz1]

Originally Posted by Dave Boulden

Well, they might have done, but you defined the warp points with a razor-blade and a splicing block

..and your trusty white chinagraph pencil too eh Dave? (happy days)

[sureno]

wow you guys are hard core
im so happy i was introduced to music in the computer age

[modz1]

Originally Posted by sureno

wow you guys are hard core

"You know the score!"

[Dave Boulden]

Originally Posted by modz1

..and your trusty white chinagraph pencil too eh Dave? (happy days)

Heh heh... can't say I'm too eager to return to the days of synching a Fostex R8 via an MTC-1 synchronizer to Cubase running on an Atari... even with dynamic song pointer positioning! Mind you, it was impressive to see the R8 rewind the spools at top speed to the current song position in Cubase and lock into sync within only a couple of bars

[Khazul]

Originally Posted by sureno

i think that applies to vinyl too, i got the voices and wanted to do a remix along the same lines of afro drum but am going with something else, going to see if melodyne can fix the timing??? i hate accapella b@ll@x

I find it easiest to just play something along with the acapella and then use what I played to figure out exact BPM etc and then serve as my guide for time correcting the vocal if neeed as well.

Usually just playing along with it will reveal even things like in exactly which beat/8th or whatever in a bar phrases start etc, when simply listening to it will never do that without the backing istrumental.


Back on to BPMs on programmed music - alot of stuff that has transferred via vinyl will be at odd BPMs and hence odd pitches - I have often come across material on CD that is a good half semi-tone out which suggest quite a pitch variation (3%) in a transfer somewhere and in some cases significant variations in tempo (and pitch) thorugh a track on some unmixed compilation CDs.

Mixed compilations are of course a nightmare - its not unusual for the tempo to be all over the place, slow rising or slowly falling through a track etc - and especially at the intros and outros (assuming thay havnt allready been mixed over) - if you think warping that kind of thing is a nightmare - trying beat matching diuring mix live off a CD while the tempo of one of the tracks is changing under you - urgh

[EdRyan]

Originally Posted by Dave Boulden

Heh heh... can't say I'm too eager to return to the days of synching a Fostex R8 via an MTC-1 synchronizer to Cubase running on an Atari... even with dynamic song pointer positioning! Mind you, it was impressive to see the R8 rewind the spools at top speed to the current song position in Cubase and lock into sync within only a couple of bars

It was for the issue above, that I used to sync the daw to the tapes, rather then the tapes to the daw. It's much easier for the daw to chase, then it is for the tape machine. For short tracks it wasn't an issue, but if you were going through an entire session of tapes...You spend 1/2 of your time waiting for tapes !